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#1
Old 08-23-2005, 10:31 PM
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Default Tyson vs. THE GREATS Pt. II

# 4: Mike Tyson vs Rocky Marciano


Rocky was only 184 ½ Lbs with a record of 42-0 (37) going into his title winning effort against “Jersey” Joe Walcott in 1952. So, it’s not surprising that many would say this bout would be a statistical mismatch given “The Rock’s” size and lack of speed and presumed defensive inadequacies. What most fail to understand is the toughness and determination that was packed into that 5’ 10” frame. Walcott floored Marciano for the first time in his career in the first round of their match and beat him unmercifully for the bulk of the next 11 rounds; but “The Rock” kept coming. Marciano’s ability to take a punch was unfathomable and he blocked more than one would think.

Part of the reason he was able to sustain amidst heavy incoming was he exquisite physical conditioning; only Evander Holyfield could challenge Rocky’s superiority in this field. He was always in the best shape possible. Add to his conditioning and his toughness the fact that he was an extraordinarily powerful puncher for his size and he would hit you anywhere. If you covered up your head, he’d go to the body. Protect the body and he’d go to your head. Protect both, he’d pound on your arms and shoulders until your limbs were so battered your guard would come down and then he’d take your head off.

Seeing a smaller opponent in front of him, Mike would be frothing at the mouth for a “wam-bam, thank you, sir” kind of knock-out. Once the leather started flying, however, Mike would realize most of his hooks were sailing over the Rock’s head. At 5’ 11”, Mike has very rarely faced an opponent that was shorter than himself, so this situation would require some adjustments. Given Rocky’s willingness to trade, it wouldn’t be long before Mike would be throwing that right to the body, right uppercut to the head combination, sending a spray of sweat from Rocky’s black locks as the on-looking crowd Oooos and Owwws with every bone-jarring shot.

Tough as Rocky is, there is no way he could take this kind of brutal assault for fifteen rounds. Somewhere around the third or fourth, Mike would put together a four-punch combo and drop the Rock with a left hook that would send him sprawling backwards three or four feet. Surprisingly, the Italian would get up, cover himself a little better and survive the remainder of the round as most of Mike’s finishers catch arms and air. Not used to having an opponent come to him, Mike finds his punches being smothered pretty regularly by the crouching in-fighting Marciano, who is constantly pounding Mike’s ribcage and forearms, while most of Mike’s return volley ricochet off the Rock’s shoulders.

Occasionally, Mike will catch Rocky with a good one and the crowd responds, holding their breath for the inevitable; but it doesn’t come. As the fight rages on, Mike’s staccato bursts are fewer and fewer in number as he settles for throwing one or two punches at a time while Marciano labors on in a blue collar-style, catching Mike on the chin more and more as the head-movement becomes all but absent. Finally, somewhere around the 13th, Marciano catches Mike in the ribs with a brutal left hook, sending the bigger man to one knee. Rising at the count of eight, Mike is gasping for air like a fish on a sandbar. Smelling blood, Rocky wades in amidst desperation shots and drops Mike again with a volley of body blows, uppercuts, and overhand rights. Knowing he’s done, the referee rescues Mike from further punishment with thirty seconds to go in the round.


# 3: Mike Tyson vs Larry Holmes

Many will say this is a moot bout, seeing as how Tyson easily did away with Holmes back in 1988; but remember, “The Easton Assassin” was 38 years old by the time “Iron Mike” dispatched him in four rounds. How would Mike have done against the Larry Holmes that stopped Gerry Cooney six years prior? Granted, in June of ‘82, Holmes was already 33 years old; but this fight was his defining moment, so it’s only fair to use this version of Larry. Going into the Cooney fight, Holmes had established himself as a consummate and crafty professional with one of the most devastating jabs the division has ever seen. At the time, he had a record of 39-0 (29) and was in exquisite condition at 212 ½ lbs.

Mike would come out storming and Larry would dance off to his left, away from Mike’s left hook, peppering Tyson with stinging jabs all the while. Occasionally, Larry would stop and try to catch Mike coming in with a solid one-two; but early in the fight he would catch air with the right and be countered well to the body and occasionally with a hook to the head. Suddenly, in the fifth, thunder lands as Larry brings the jab back a little too slow and Mike lands a solid right over the top: “Down goes Holmes, Down Goes Holmes, Down Goes Holmes!” Larry rises on wobbly legs at the count of six and immediately gets on his bicycle.

The crowd is in an uproar as Mike furiously pursues the fleeing Holmes, who occasionally gets cornered and grabs on for dear life. After what seems like an eternity, the bell sounds, giving Larry sixty seconds to clear his head. The sixth round consists of Larry cautiously boxing from a distance as a winded Tyson half-heartedly pursues. Through the remainder of the mid-rounds, the pattern has been established; Larry jabbing and circling to his left and occasionally stopping to catch Mike with the straight right or uppercut, while Tyson attempts to get on the inside, sometimes with success, and pounds on Holmes’ midsection before Larry can tie him up.

By round ten, the tiring Tyson, whose eyes are beginning to show swelling from Larry’s jabs, has a slight lead in the scoring; but Holmes has been catching him more and more frequently with the right hand. Then it happens. Midway though the 11th, Mike casually goes in for the clinch and Holmes steps to his right and fires a huge right-hand uppercut. Tyson’s legs betray his exhaustion and Holmes goes in for the kill. While firing off right hand after right hand, Holmes is occasionally caught by a whistling left hook or right hand; but they don’t seem to have as much steam as earlier in the bout. The round ends with Mike in a defensive posture on the ropes and Holmes firing at long range.

At the beginning of the 12th, Holmes is the one who charges across the ring and after meeting Mike just outside of ring center, he catches the shorter man with a vicious one-two that sends Tyson falling backwards into the ropes. Watching “The Easton Assassin” Fire shot after shot from a distance, well out of the way of Tyson’s sporadic counters, the referee jumps in at the one minute mark to save the spent fighter from any further punishment.
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#2
Old 08-24-2005, 01:12 AM
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Tyson had a decent chin.It took Marciano 9 rounds to knock out glass chin Archie Moore.Tysons chin is far better than Moores.Moore also dropped Marciano with one punch.Tyson punches alot harder than Moore and is alot faster.Marciano would never make it out of the first minute with Tyson.
I could see Tyson beating Holmes and Holmes beating Tyson.If Tyson can jump on him early then Holmes gets knocked out.But if Holmes could make it past lets say 5 rounds then i see Holmes stopping Tyson late.
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#3
Old 08-24-2005, 01:16 AM
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oh my god you take a famous fight were one of these guys win change the charles with tyson and change the story just a slight bit im not trying to be mean and you might have good arguments but dude you a moron sorry that was uncalled for but you deserve it
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#4
Old 08-24-2005, 05:13 AM
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Marciano beats Tyson. Granted, he was alot smaller and got knocked down (twice in 49 fights) by lesser fighters then Tyson, but that does not prove a damn thing.

Marciano was obviously surprised by Walcott coming out as fast as he did in their first encounter, and he was hit by a picture-perfect left hook while off balance. This was Walcotts trademark punch and he had used this several times with success - he knocked out Charles cold with the same punch and decked Louis as well. Marciano got up at 4 and was not even remotely stunned. Legendary trainer Angelo Dundee, has been quoted saying that he never will understand how Marciano got up so fast from that punch - he called it "a perfect shot".

Against Moore, Marciano once again got to suck canvas. But not for long. He got right up at 3 and went after Moore. He later said that the punch Moore threw never had him hurt one bit. I think the way Marciano sprung right up again proves this.

So he went down from fighters with moderate punching power. So what? Ali had a great chin and defeated heavy hitters such as Foreman, Frazier, Liston and Shavers. Still he was almost knocked out cold by the 180lbs mediocre Henry Cooper when he was 21 years old. Ok, this was not "a prime" Ali, but still, he was OUT at the time and got saved by the bell as he stumbled back to his corner.

Marciano also got knocked down by relatively small fighters, but he was not "out" at all. He got right back up and kept coming. In fact, the referee said after the Walcott fight that he could tell Marciano was not hurt.

And also, what about all the punches that Marciano took that he did not go down from?! I have seen him taking hard punches flush on the chin and not even blink. Rocky Marciano had an iron chin, that is a goddamn fact of life!

Tyson would hit him with bombs, and I can see Marciano going down early. After all he was a slow starter. But Marciano had HEART. And tons of it. He would never give up and Tyson would have to knock his head clean off to stop him.
Marciano would cover up and fight back, and after 2-3 rounds he would be fighting on level with Tyson. After 5-6 rounds he would start controlling the fight. By this time, the spineless turd that is Mike Tyson would have given up and the rest would be a walk in the park for Marciano. He would hurt Tyson and beat him into submission. The ref (or Ol' Mike himself) would stop it in the later rounds.

Rocky Marciano by late tko.

Oh, I almost forgot.... Holmes would defeat Tyson as well. He was a fine boxer with a great chin.

Larry Holmes by UD (or possibly late tko).
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Old 08-24-2005, 08:48 PM
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For Tyson-Marciano, im going to have to go with Tyson in 8 rounds. Marciano, in many of his fights was offbalance, with contributed to his knockdown to Archie Moore. You cant fight Tyson by throwing wild punches, thats just inviting defeat, Tyson in his prime was too quick, and was a great defensive fighter.

Tyson-Holmes-Holmes, for all of his ring smarts and ring generelship, wouldnt be able to dance away from Tyson. Holmes had a tendency of dropping his hands, which is not what you should do against Tyson. I see Tyson stopping him in 9 rounds by a crushing right hand when Holmes drops his hands.
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#6
Old 08-24-2005, 10:18 PM
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OK Marciano got dropped by Moore, but remember Moore had the highest knockout percentage in history. And who has Tyson gotten knocked down by? DOUGLAS. In his prime.
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#7
Old 08-24-2005, 10:19 PM
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BTW Tyson wasn't much of a defensive fighter, all he did was bob his head, and that made him look good against people who were scared ****less of him and didn't even try and fight.
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#8
Old 08-25-2005, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydog
OK Marciano got dropped by Moore, but remember Moore had the highest knockout percentage in history. And who has Tyson gotten knocked down by? DOUGLAS. In his prime.
Moore was a blown up light heavyweight.

Tyson was NOT in his prime when he fought Douglas, yes, he was 23, but he hardly trained, fired all of his old trainers, and was on antidepressents. Cus D Amato had died, and when Tyson was at his best was when he was with Rooney, and then when he left Tyson lost his hunger to win. In my opinion, Tyson was at his best when he fought Spinks, and once he beat him, he didnt train close as hard and didnt have anything to motivate him. I doubt even you would say that the Tyson that beat Spinks would have even had a close fight with the Douglas that later fought him.

What Tyson did later in his career does nothing to take away from his prime. Tyson in his prime was a magnificent defensive fighter, and you saying he isnt either proves that you have only seen his later fights like Lewis, Holyfield or Williams or that you simply hate Mike for what he has done out of the ring, or a combination of both. He was always moving, blocking, and slipping punches. You said that he only beat fighters who were scared of him. True, Mike beat his fair share of scared fighters, but he fought many more who were not. Razor Ruddock wasnt scared, and Tyson beat him twice. Frank Bruno wasnt too scared either, Tyson destroyed him twice. Holmes wasnt either, and yes, he was 38, but a 42 year old one would later beat Ray Mercer.
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:01 PM
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Tyson was in his physical prime when he fought Douglas Muchmoore.If he trained hard or not isnt a excuse.He still lost.
Bruno was afraid of Tyson.He had Tyson out on his feet with one uppercut in their first fight but didn't jump on Tyson to finish the job.Ruddock was a glas chin bum.Morrison and Lewis beat him with ease.
But that has nothing to do with Marciano beating Tyson.Douglas could and would knock out Maricano as well.Muchmoore you said Tyson would beat Marciano in 8 rounds?Muchmoore if a blown up 45 year old middleweight could knock down Marciano with one punch in the first round of their fight then a prime Tyson would finish him one.
But anyway it is good to see you will still make post on this forum.
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#10
Old 08-25-2005, 02:05 PM
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I still don't see how you have Dempsey a 190 pound fighter who was knocked out in one round by Flynn and never fought any black fighters ahead of Foreman.Or how you have Jack Johnson a 190 pound guy who was knocked out in 3 rounds by a 170 pound man and who fought in a era where he could throw one punch and hold a head of Foreman.Or a guy like Tunney who was a light puncher and also never fought any black fighters ahead of Foreman.And Frazier a man who Foreman beat ahead of Foreman.I don't see how Frazier is better than Foreman when Foreman beat him 2 times.But you also have Tyson above Holyfield when Holyfield beat the crap out Tyson 2 times.
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