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#11
Old 11-15-2010, 02:25 PM
NChristo
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What about a Floyd loss? What would it do for Floyd?
Because of what Pac has achieved I'd consider his place is static, it won't move even if he did loose to Floyd at least not by much anyway imo, plus Pac is on the tail end of his career it looks like.

If Floyd won it would move him up the list more then if Pacquaio won because he would of kept his 0 against a truly world class boxer, Pacquaio would still be ahead by a bit I imagine, at the moment Floyd would need more then a win over Pac to be considered higher then him.

Although I would have to revise both their careers again when they retired to actually be accurate of course, ^^ that was just a quick thought.
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#12
Old 11-15-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolo Punch View Post
So who must rate him over alot of fighters. Do you rate him over Langford, Pep, Gans, Greb, B.Leonard?
yes.......
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#13
Old 11-15-2010, 02:50 PM
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yes.......
Who is above him?
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#14
Old 11-15-2010, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NChristo View Post
Because of what Pac has achieved I'd consider his place is static, it won't move even if he did loose to Floyd at least not by much anyway imo, plus Pac is on the tail end of his career it looks like.

If Floyd won it would move him up the list more then if Pacquaio won because he would of kept his 0 against a truly world class boxer, Pacquaio would still be ahead by a bit I imagine, at the moment Floyd would need more then a win over Pac to be considered higher then him.

Although I would have to revise both their careers again when they retired to actually be accurate of course, ^^ that was just a quick thought.
Very nice for just a quick thought.
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#15
Old 11-15-2010, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
yes.......
Wow, what are your reason for rating him over Greb & Langford?
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#16
Old 11-15-2010, 03:25 PM
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Nothing he did in 2010 did anything that showed he is any greater than he was when he beat Cotto in 2009.

Margarito was a shot opponent who had no chance at beating Pacquiao. There are many better fighters out there he could have faced who would have been LIVE opponents that would COME TO FIGHT yet Manny decided to face a guy who was busted cheating and had to jump through hoops to get his license reinstated. Not only that but nobody wanted to see this fight, as they believed Margarito is a disgrace to the sport, he did not deserve a title shot or a huge payday.

It is unacceptable to continue fighting shot fighters who are at the end of their careers and are nowhere near the top of their game and then claim greatness.

Manny beat up a human punching bag who had no chance in there and I didn't find it entertaining in the least.

Instead of telling the media that Shane Mosley is "Too good," Pacquiao and his team should say "BRING IT ON" because "I am the best in the world and I want to prove it." But he didn't, he has avoided Mosley for 2 years, refused to take a blood test for a career highest purse with Mayweather, will not acknowledge Martinez or Williams as contenders, yet continues to fight guys who are laid off and years past their best (or in Margarito's case, SHOT.)

To be the best you have to beat the best and IMO Manny Pacquiao has not done that.

And Sonny how can you possibly have that opinion of Manny Pacquiao and have the opinion that you have of Lennox Lewis? Manny and Lennox are from the same cloth as far as I'm concerned. If Manny is top 3 ATG then Lennox Lewis is a top 3 ATG heavyweight.

I don't want this thread to go into Lennox Lewis but I am simply making a point. Let's not let it get too out of hand with Lennox but keep it on Manny.

Now Roach is talking about a fight with Marquez. This should have happened 5 years ago if it was going to happen at all, yet it didn't. Now it's just another slap in the face to boxing fans everywhere.

When Manny decides to fight a live opponent, I will give him all the credit in the world. It wasn't until he started to fight SHOT fighters that he was dominant. When he fought guys near the top of their game (Morales, JMM) he got beat up and lost. I do not believe Manny has gotten better since that time, but I believe he has fought GARBAGE competition and the guys he's fighting are TAYLOR made for him. Both Clottey and Margarito are human punching bags when they fight a guy who is an "in and out" mid range fighter with tons of speed and stamina.

Those are not good matchups, they are bad for boxing, and I believe that history will remember those fights exactly as I have stated. It is unacceptable to turn down Shane Mosley then go on and fight Margarito.

No fight with Shane at 147 but a fight with Margarito at 150 is OK? Why is this ok? Why isn't this put into question? Since moving up he has fought guys who are at the end of their career.

David Diaz has done nothing since he fought Pacquiao, Hatton has done nothing, Oscar was a shell of his former self and was in the worst "fight shape" of his entire career and has done nothing and will never fight again, Clottey came out of nowhere (he was basically retired) and will probably not fight anymore, Margarito's career was all but over as well when Manny decided to fight him. I believe that if Margarito wasn't PERFECT for "handing Manny his 8th title on a silver platter" that Arum would have stopped investing in him and he would still be banned in the states and probably not fight anymore.

These are not top contenders at the top of their game, these are shot fighters who do NOT belong in the ring with a world class fighter like Manny Pacquiao and they do not deserve TITLE SHOTS.

Manny is as great today as he was the night of his fight with Cotto November of 2009.

Last edited by CarlosG815; 11-15-2010 at 03:28 PM.
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#17
Old 11-15-2010, 05:19 PM
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He has moved up my list a lot in the last 12 months,he beat 3 big,solid welters in dominating fashion,being the smaller guy in each fight.If he fights mayweather and beats him then he will move into my too my top 15 maybe even top 10
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#18
Old 11-15-2010, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
IMO Manny Pacquiao is Top 3 ATG P4P and will most likely be rated as the greatest boxer in the history of the sport.. Morales (thrice) Marquez (twice), Barrera (twice), Delahoya, Cotto, Hatton, Margarito i would not call those "cherry-picking" a case can be made that Oscar was past it yet it was Oscar who called for a fight with Pacquiao and Pacquiao was a 4/1 dog... 8 world titles in 8 weight divisions is a phenominal achievement and Manny Pacquiao is a phenominal fighter and a class human being .
how can you rank him over Ray Robinson is beyond me...
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#19
Old 11-15-2010, 08:49 PM
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Top 25 is perfect for him at the moment. I think he has a spot there locked based on his resume and very rare combination of speed and skill. He is in the discussion for best offensive fighter ever.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
Nothing he did in 2010 did anything that showed he is any greater than he was when he beat Cotto in 2009.

Margarito was a shot opponent who had no chance at beating Pacquiao. There are many better fighters out there he could have faced who would have been LIVE opponents that would COME TO FIGHT yet Manny decided to face a guy who was busted cheating and had to jump through hoops to get his license reinstated. Not only that but nobody wanted to see this fight, as they believed Margarito is a disgrace to the sport, he did not deserve a title shot or a huge payday.

It is unacceptable to continue fighting shot fighters who are at the end of their careers and are nowhere near the top of their game and then claim greatness.

Manny beat up a human punching bag who had no chance in there and I didn't find it entertaining in the least.

Instead of telling the media that Shane Mosley is "Too good," Pacquiao and his team should say "BRING IT ON" because "I am the best in the world and I want to prove it." But he didn't, he has avoided Mosley for 2 years, refused to take a blood test for a career highest purse with Mayweather, will not acknowledge Martinez or Williams as contenders, yet continues to fight guys who are laid off and years past their best (or in Margarito's case, SHOT.)

To be the best you have to beat the best and IMO Manny Pacquiao has not done that.

And Sonny how can you possibly have that opinion of Manny Pacquiao and have the opinion that you have of Lennox Lewis? Manny and Lennox are from the same cloth as far as I'm concerned. If Manny is top 3 ATG then Lennox Lewis is a top 3 ATG heavyweight.

I don't want this thread to go into Lennox Lewis but I am simply making a point. Let's not let it get too out of hand with Lennox but keep it on Manny.

Now Roach is talking about a fight with Marquez. This should have happened 5 years ago if it was going to happen at all, yet it didn't. Now it's just another slap in the face to boxing fans everywhere.

When Manny decides to fight a live opponent, I will give him all the credit in the world. It wasn't until he started to fight SHOT fighters that he was dominant. When he fought guys near the top of their game (Morales, JMM) he got beat up and lost. I do not believe Manny has gotten better since that time, but I believe he has fought GARBAGE competition and the guys he's fighting are TAYLOR made for him. Both Clottey and Margarito are human punching bags when they fight a guy who is an "in and out" mid range fighter with tons of speed and stamina.

Those are not good matchups, they are bad for boxing, and I believe that history will remember those fights exactly as I have stated. It is unacceptable to turn down Shane Mosley then go on and fight Margarito.

No fight with Shane at 147 but a fight with Margarito at 150 is OK? Why is this ok? Why isn't this put into question? Since moving up he has fought guys who are at the end of their career.

David Diaz has done nothing since he fought Pacquiao, Hatton has done nothing, Oscar was a shell of his former self and was in the worst "fight shape" of his entire career and has done nothing and will never fight again, Clottey came out of nowhere (he was basically retired) and will probably not fight anymore, Margarito's career was all but over as well when Manny decided to fight him. I believe that if Margarito wasn't PERFECT for "handing Manny his 8th title on a silver platter" that Arum would have stopped investing in him and he would still be banned in the states and probably not fight anymore.

These are not top contenders at the top of their game, these are shot fighters who do NOT belong in the ring with a world class fighter like Manny Pacquiao and they do not deserve TITLE SHOTS.

Manny is as great today as he was the night of his fight with Cotto November of 2009.
The third fight with Marquez should have happened 5 years ago? So you're criticizing Pacquiao for not time traveling after the second fight back to 2005 to fight Marquez a third time, which would actually be their second fight?
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