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#101
Old 11-15-2010, 12:10 PM
The Big Dunn
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Originally Posted by Cuauhtémoc1502 View Post
Genetically able to move up in weight? What does that even mean? So because Manny moved up to the weight he is, that somehow takes away or makes this victory less impressive?

Manny's body isn't any different to able to carry the weight. If that was the case he wouldn't have come in a 144 lbs, he would have made 150 easily then but it didn't happen because he's so much more the smaller man.

Shane was more impressive but Shane is also much bigger and stronger than Manny. He's a natural WW and seeing Shane stand in front of Tony wasn't as big a surprise as Manny standing in front of Marg and destroying him the way he did.

Manny has no business fighting guys like Cotto, Marg or Clottey, yet he does it and not only wins, he DESTROYS them.

If that's not impressive, I don't know what is..........
It means manny has the ability to go up in weight while some great fighters, Hagler BHop, stay at the same weight there whole career so its hard to peenalize them for not moving up because there body couldn't do it. Thats still a bad explanation but I think you get the point. It in no way disses or diminishes Manny's 8 in * accomplishment.

Bigger and better are two different things and you know it. For example, SRL beating Donny lalonde pales in comparison to beating Duran coming up in weight. So I give manny more props for beating a truly great Barrera then I do a much larger but lesser fighter in marg.

Sorry but beating bigger slower men in a professional fight does not make me feel the same way you do. Manny drawing with JMM was much better than Clottey, Marg, and ODh combined.

Now if this was on the street youd have a fair point.
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#102
Old 11-15-2010, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by -Top Rank- View Post
Barrera is higher than Toney and so is Morales.

Elite fighters

Margarito
Cotto
Clottey
Morales
Barrera
Hatton (at 140)

All of those guys were the elite fighters of their class and Manny completely dominated them. I really feel it's in vein to break down why each of those guys were considered elite....because it should be common knowledge, but again no one has seperated themselves from their opposition or opponents around their class like Manny has. It's not even the fact that he beat them, but how he did it and how easy he made it look.

Hell even Roger and Floyd sr.....who hate Manny with a passion were in awe and disbelief on how dominate Manny was against Cotto. So much so that they truly believe Pacquaio is on PED's as that is the only way they can explain him being that good that night.
This version of Margarito was elite? Seriously?

Cotto is debatable even though he was waxed by Margarito.

Clottey was elite? His best win was a shot Judah.

Morales beat him while he was past it. When Pac fought him the other 2 times he was NO WHERE near elite.

Barerra was elite.

Hatton wasnt elite at that point. The Lazcano fight comes to mind. He was a god win though. But elite? No way man.
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#103
Old 11-15-2010, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by No Ceilings View Post
Helloooooooooooooooo
Before Martinez, Williams best win was Margarito and that was a fight he barely won. Marg has always been world class.....yet Manny annihilated him.
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#104
Old 11-15-2010, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
I gave manny his credit. But genetically he has been able to do what other couldn't and he deserves the accolades to a degree. But I can't punish Lopez or Hagler because they didn't have the genetics to move up in weight. Manny is not better fighters then them but he has done something they didn't.

A skilled boxer like JMM, who is not where near SRL, floyd, or sweet pea, arguably beat manny twice. In the ring Manny has some slight flaws that can be exposed when the opponent boxes well (Morales another example).

Again, a 5-1 underdog was the bigger and stronger man. BUT HE WASNT THE BETTER MAN! Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm hating on manny.

Question, if you feel like this now then how did you feel after Shane beat tony,because, IMO Shane was more impressive?
as you said, "Pac has able to do that others couldn't (" Go up in weight).. That is rare and thats what stuff of legends do. And stories are told. Thats's bragging rights there. And that came from your mouth. Give the man props man. You've been a hater. The guy is special. Don't be blind by hate.

Again to repeat what you said, Pac has done something they couldn't do" Isnt that what makes a fighter a rare commodity. Someone special not all can do. Stuff of legends my man. Love pac while he is still here. You still have a chance. Pac has 1 fight left. =)
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#105
Old 11-15-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
It means manny has the ability to go up in weight while some great fighters, Hagler BHop, stay at the same weight there whole career so its hard to peenalize them for not moving up because there body couldn't do it. Thats still a bad explanation but I think you get the point. It in no way disses or diminishes Manny's 8 in * accomplishment.

Bigger and better are two different things and you know it. For example, SRL beating Donny lalonde pales in comparison to beating Duran coming up in weight. So I give manny more props for beating a truly great Barrera then I do a much larger but lesser fighter in marg.

Sorry but beating bigger slower men in a professional fight does not make me feel the same way you do. Manny drawing with JMM was much better than Clottey, Marg, and ODh combined.

Now if this was on the street youd have a fair point.
Man you ****in nailed it.

We cant just erase the fact that Pac was suppose to whoop his ass.

We cant erase the fact that Marg looked like trash in his last fight.

We cant erase the fact that hes slow, methodical and was possibly without plaster for only the second or third time of his career.

We cant erase the fact that he was past his prime.

All because he was bigger than Pac.

As if thats shyt means it was a glorious win.

Marg doesnt use his height or reach and got raped just liek I thought he would. He fights small. He gives up his height and reach as soon as the bell sounds.

I mean didnt Pac make a 165 Pound Clottey turn bytch?

So why are people acting so shocked over this win?
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#106
Old 11-15-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by No Ceilings View Post
This version of Margarito was elite? Seriously?

Cotto is debatable even though he was waxed by Margarito.

Clottey was elite? His best win was a shot Judah.

Morales beat him while he was past it. When Pac fought him the other 2 times he was NO WHERE near elite.

Barerra was elite.

Hatton wasnt elite at that point. The Lazcano fight comes to mind. He was a god win though. But elite? No way man.
Yeah it's in your blood to hate....so I fully expected this reply. Margarito that fought Williams was the same Margarito that fought Manny. Clottey is elite because he has been in with some of the best WW's and up until that point no one clearly beat him.

As far as Morales he was an elite SFW....actually Top 3 at the minimum. He had no business at 135, which is why he lost, and 130 was his ceiling. Marquez is an elite LW but that is his ceiling as well. If he goes to 140 he would easily get bet buy anyone in the top 8 if not top 10. That has sh1t to do with him as a fighter and more to do with him being in a class he has no business. Same sh1t with Morales and Raheem.
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#107
Old 11-15-2010, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by -Top Rank- View Post
Before Martinez, Williams best win was Margarito and that was a fight he barely won. Marg has always been world class.....yet Manny annihilated him.
Williams barely beat Margarito? Did you even watch the fight? Marg won no more than 4 rounds. Tops.

Marg was world class? The 2010 version? Cmon Mike. You workin OT trying to hype this win up.
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#108
Old 11-15-2010, 12:17 PM
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Man you ****in nailed it.

We cant just erase the fact that Pac was suppose to whoop his ass.

We cant erase the fact that Marg looked like trash in his last fight.

We cant erase the fact that hes slow, methodical and was possibly without plaster for only the second or third time of his career.

We cant erase the fact that he was past his prime.

All because he was bigger than Pac.

As if thats shyt means it was a glorious win.

Marg doesnt use his height or reach and got raped just liek I thought he would. He fights small. He gives up his height and reach as soon as the bell sounds.

I mean didnt Pac make a 165 Pound Clottey turn bytch?

So why are people acting so shocked over this win?
Please explain to my why up until Martinez this bum was Williams best win? I would love to hear your view on this although I know you know where this is going so I expect a Barry Sanders type of side step from you......lol
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#109
Old 11-15-2010, 12:21 PM
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Yeah it's in your blood to hate....so I fully expected this reply. Margarito that fought Williams was the same Margarito that fought Manny. Clottey is elite because he has been in with some of the best WW's and up until that point no one clearly beat him.

As far as Morales he was an elite SFW....actually Top 3 at the minimum. He had no business at 135, which is why he lost, and 130 was his ceiling. Marquez is an elite LW but that is his ceiling as well. If he goes to 140 he would easily get bet buy anyone in the top 8 if not top 10. That has sh1t to do with him as a fighter and more to do with him being in a class he has no business. Same sh1t with Morales and Raheem.
My post had nothing to do with hate. Im just not ready to crown him as the GOAT like 90% of NSB.

The Margarito that fought Paul was avoided and straight beastin on people. He was in his Prime and Paul beat him in his back yard.

The version Manny fought was fount out to be cheating, knocked out by Mosley, suspended a whole year and looked like trash vs Garcia.

So in that sequence how was Margarito elite?

Clottey is not an elite fighter. Elite fighters actually WIN big fights. Clottey lost them all. Clottey, Margarito, Pacquiao and Cotto.

Again on Morales he was VERY good the first time Pac fought him even though he was past it. And that version beat Pacquiao.

The other 2 times is just crazy to say he was elite.
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#110
Old 11-15-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by -Top Rank- View Post
Yeah it's in your blood to hate....so I fully expected this reply. Margarito that fought Williams was the same Margarito that fought Manny. Clottey is elite because he has been in with some of the best WW's and up until that point no one clearly beat him.

As far as Morales he was an elite SFW....actually Top 3 at the minimum. He had no business at 135, which is why he lost, and 130 was his ceiling. Marquez is an elite LW but that is his ceiling as well. If he goes to 140 he would easily get bet buy anyone in the top 8 if not top 10. That has sh1t to do with him as a fighter and more to do with him being in a class he has no business. Same sh1t with Morales and Raheem.
Dude, cut it out.
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