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#11
Old 11-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New England View Post
if you think a journeyman from any era has more than a slight chance against either klitschko you dont know jack **** about boxing
I'm saying the quality of today's Heavyweight division reeks of feces and if you think either Klitschko would have had ANY chance of being a champion in the 60s and 70s


Quote:
Originally Posted by New England View Post
i saw a post saying that a journeyman from bygone days is as good as one of today's contenders

if we're saying a contender has a chance to become champion (which he does by definition) then you are saying that bygone journeymen have a chance against a klitschko
The quality of the Heavyweight division was far greater in the 60s and 70s than it is today. Your typical journeyman by the standards of that era WOULD, in fact, be a contender today. Sorry to bust your bubble but today's standards are FAR lower.


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Originally Posted by New England View Post
i'll guess that you've:
A: never been to a boxing match
B: never met a klitschko
C: have never been hit in the head
I'll guess that you've:
A: Not figured out I've been watching boxing for longer than you've been alive in all likelihood


Poet

Last edited by JAB5239; 11-13-2010 at 03:49 AM.
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#12
Old 11-12-2010, 04:35 PM
Holtol
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Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
The scores certainly weren't close and I didn't see Chuvalo winning too many rounds. I have watched Chuvalo and I saw nothing from him that would make me think he would beat either Klitschko.
I did not agree with the scoring of the fight I thought it was much closer, almost a draw. Chuvalo landed many body punches on Ali during the fight. Ali ended up in the hospital. Chuvalo went to a dance with his wife after the fight. Against a prime Ali I don't think anyone outperformed Chuvalo.

Don't get me wrong I think Vitali is very good even a little better then Lewis. But Vitali does not hit that hard, not as hard as Mcchall or Rahman. He would not be able to do much damage to Chuvalo who was a hard hitter himself. He put Ali in the Hospital who had long arms and great hand speed and about one of the toughest body's ever.

Forman stopped Chuvalo but the stoppage was premature. Chuvalo was not hurt and asked the ref "Are you crazy". The Frazier fight could have been better also but Chuvalo's eye was part way knocked out.
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#13
Old 11-12-2010, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Holtol View Post
I did not agree with the scoring of the fight I thought it was much closer, almost a draw. Chuvalo landed many body punches on Ali during the fight. Ali ended up in the hospital. Chuvalo went to a dance with his wife after the fight. Against a prime Ali I don't think anyone outperformed Chuvalo.

Don't get me wrong I think Vitali is very good even a little better then Lewis. But Vitali does not hit that hard, not as hard as Mcchall or Rahman. He would not be able to do much damage to Chuvalo who was a hard hitter himself. He put Ali in the Hospital who had long arms and great hand speed and about one of the toughest body's ever.

Forman stopped Chuvalo but the stoppage was premature. Chuvalo was not hurt and asked the ref "Are you crazy". The Frazier fight could have been better also but Chuvalo's eye was part way knocked out.


Chuvalo landed a lot of kidney punches which are illegal and was the reason why Ali went to the hospital(urinating blood). The fight wasn't close and it was a clear win for Ali. How you can say it was almost a draw is a mystery to me. They were also fighting in Canada which is not exactly a place that would have been biased against their countryman. As far as the Foreman fight Chuvalo was clearly hurt and even if it was premature, Chuvalo was doing nothing but taking a brutal beating.His own Manager climbed into the ring asking the ref to stop the fight. It's not like he was winning or even in the fight because he was getting pounded by Foreman with jabs and haymakers. Vitali is more skilled than Chuvalo was and he's much bigger and stronger. Outside of KO'ing Vitali(highly unlikely) I don't see how Chuvalo wins that fight. And if his eye was "part way knocked out" against Frazier it's because Frazier gave him a beating.

Last edited by joseph5620; 11-12-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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#14
Old 11-12-2010, 04:51 PM
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both klitschko's would beat chuvalo, but i think chuvalo would be to much for haye and adamek
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#15
Old 11-12-2010, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
Chuvalo landed a lot of kidney punches which are illegal and was the reason why Ali went to the hospital(urinating blood). The fight wasn't close and it was a clear win for Ali. How you can say it was almost a draw is a mystery to me. They were also fighting in Canada which is not exactly a place that would have been biased against their countryman. As far as the Foreman fight Chuvalo was clearly hurt and even if it was premature, Chuvalo was doing nothing but taking a brutal beating.His own Manager climbed into the ring asking the ref to stop the fight. It's not like he was winning or even in the fight because he was getting pounded by Foreman with jabs and haymakers. Vitali is more skilled than Chuvalo was and he's much bigger and stronger. Outside of KO'ing Vitali(highly unlikely) I don't see how Chuvalo wins that fight. And if his eye was "part way knocked out" against Frazier it's because Frazier gave him a beating.
I have watched the fight a few times and I think Chuvalo came close to getting the draw. I think maybe you are not giving enough credit to Chuvalo's body blows. I score good body shots.

If the fight with Forman had been allowed to go on I still think Forman would have won. but would have been much more competitive in the late rounds. And you never know Forman could have gassed out.

I did not really notice Chuvalo's body shots to be fouls. Maybe that's where are difference in opinion is.
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#16
Old 11-12-2010, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Holtol View Post
I have watched the fight a few times and I think Chuvalo came close to getting the draw. I think maybe you are not giving enough credit to Chuvalo's body blows. I score good body shots.

If the fight with Forman had been allowed to go on I still think Forman would have won. but would have been much more competitive in the late rounds. And you never know Forman could have gassed out.

I did not really notice Chuvalo's body shots to be fouls. Maybe that's where are difference in opinion is.
Your first two paragraphs are quite stunning. Chuvalo probably hit Ali more than anyone in the 60's, but he didn't come close to deserving a draw in that fight. In all the years since it happened I've never heard or read one voice to the contrary. As to the Foreman fight, we should be grateful that in his senior years Chuvalo is still well spoken and alert. A few more vicious shots from Foreman may have changed that dramatically.

Last edited by Scott9945; 11-13-2010 at 12:41 AM.
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#17
Old 11-12-2010, 11:58 PM
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LMAO @ who thinks the fight was a draw.

There is no possible way either fight could have been a draw. Some people are just beyond delusional.

Last edited by JAB5239; 11-13-2010 at 03:51 AM.
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#18
Old 11-13-2010, 01:20 PM
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Your first two paragraphs are quite stunning. Chuvalo probably hit Ali more than anyone in the 60's, but he didn't come close to deserving a draw in that fight. In all the years since it happened I've never heard or read one voice to the contrary. As to the Foreman fight, we should be grateful that in his senior years Chuvalo is still well spoken and alert. A few more vicious shots from Foreman may have changed that dramatically.
I would like to see the fight again it has been five years or so since I watched their first fight. But I don't have the fight taped and I can't find it on you tube. The fight was not particularly that good to watch but I would like to watch it again to see if maybe I was scoring it wrong. I think many people get caught up in how good prime Ali was that they give him the benefit of the doubt in many rounds. Their second fight was not that close but their first was I think. I might have to wait for awhile to see it again unfortunately.

Yeah Chuvalo is well spoken and alert, he was not concussed in his career. And although Forman landed huge shots on Chuvalo. The ref should of recognized he was not hurt and ok to keep fighting. In order to beat that version of Forman his opponents had to survive an early brutal onslaught. And Chuvalo was a fighter capable of this but he was not allowed to finish the fight.
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#19
Old 11-13-2010, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Holtol View Post
I would like to see the fight again it has been five years or so since I watched their first fight. But I don't have the fight taped and I can't find it on you tube. The fight was not particularly that good to watch but I would like to watch it again to see if maybe I was scoring it wrong. I think many people get caught up in how good prime Ali was that they give him the benefit of the doubt in many rounds. Their second fight was not that close but their first was I think. I might have to wait for awhile to see it again unfortunately.

Yeah Chuvalo is well spoken and alert, he was not concussed in his career. And although Forman landed huge shots on Chuvalo. The ref should of recognized he was not hurt and ok to keep fighting. In order to beat that version of Forman his opponents had to survive an early brutal onslaught. And Chuvalo was a fighter capable of this but he was not allowed to finish the fight.
A couple of comments. I thought I saw the first Ali-Chuvalo fight on ESPN Classic in the past couple of years. IMO it was better to watch than the other Ali fights of that era, which is a tribute to GC.

And I have seen the Foreman fight quite a few times. Chuvalo did not protest the stoppage (or if he did it was half hearted).
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#20
Old 11-13-2010, 02:57 PM
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I found some footage on the fight, but not the whole fight unfortunetly. From what I have watched it is somewhat like I remember. Here are rounds 14 and 15 I think Ali edged out these two rounds. But they were still fairly close not blow out rounds for Ali.

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