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#1
Old 10-28-2008, 12:57 PM
TheGreatA
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Default Sonny Liston vs Cleveland Williams

Two brutal brawls that ended quickly and in devastating fashion:


First fight (1959)


Second fight (1960)
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#2
Old 10-28-2008, 02:29 PM
black.ink
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Prime Williams was a beast. It's just unfortunate he ran into a bigger beast. He no doubt gave Liston some scares though in their brief encounters. Deserves props.

He shouldn't have fought Ali when he did, especially after getting shot which involved a massive weight-loss.

His knockout streak in his early career was impressive, but his chin let him down when faced with other known punchers. His death was very unfortunate.
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#3
Old 10-28-2008, 02:46 PM
TheGreatA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black.ink View Post
Prime Williams was a beast. It's just unfortunate he ran into a bigger beast. He no doubt gave Liston some scares though in their brief encounters. Deserves props.

He shouldn't have fought Ali when he did, especially after getting shot which involved a massive weight-loss.

His knockout streak in his early career was impressive, but his chin let him down when faced with other known punchers. His death was very unfortunate.
Williams was unlucky to get his one and only title shot against a prime Ali long past his own prime.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...9257/index.htm
Here's an article about Cleveland Williams' recovery.

Although Floyd Patterson is one of my favorites, I'm certain that Cleveland Williams at the time he fought Liston could've beaten him.

Eddie Machen who went the distance with both Williams and Liston said that Williams was a tougher opponent because he was much faster than Liston and hit as hard.

"Big Cat" didn't have Liston's chin though.

Last edited by TheManchine; 10-28-2008 at 02:51 PM.
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#4
Old 10-28-2008, 03:12 PM
black.ink
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I agree on prime Williams beating Patterson if they had fought.

Was there any reason to why he never got a title shot around his prime? Was he avoided by many of the top men or was there something else stopping him facing title holders? He was a truly underrated talent who could hit like a mule.
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#5
Old 10-28-2008, 03:30 PM
TheGreatA
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For Busting Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 To Celebrate The Exposure Of Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 thanks for the lesson! - mellow_mood This gift is for the videos you posted on my Tyson/Patterson thread a while back.  I recently noticed you posted some great interview videos of Patterson on the thread which I missed at the time because I didn’t follow up on checking the responses. - Benny Leonard For doing a great Glen Johnson highlight video! - St Lion 
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Originally Posted by black.ink View Post
I agree on prime Williams beating Patterson if they had fought.

Was there any reason to why he never got a title shot around his prime? Was he avoided by many of the top men or was there something else stopping him facing title holders? He was a truly underrated talent who could hit like a mule.
As stated in the article I posted, Williams claimed he was being ducked by the champions.

He had KO'd Ernie Terrell (WBA champion at the time) and lost a split decision to him later.

D'Amato didn't want to deal with him, possibly because he knew Williams would KO the champion Patterson. Machen and Folley never got their shot at Patterson either, but Pete Rademacher who was making his professional debut did.

I read an old article where D'Amato made excuses on why his fighter didn't defend the title against top contenders, I'll try to find it if I can.

Ali's management supposedly didn't want to put an up and coming Ali/Clay (who had been floored by Banks and Cooper) against Williams in fear of his KO power.

Ali made the decision to defend his title against Cleveland Williams and certainly silenced any critics with his brilliant performance although Williams was far past his best by the time they fought.

Last edited by TheManchine; 10-28-2008 at 03:33 PM.
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#6
Old 10-28-2008, 03:46 PM
TheGreatA
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To a great poster!! - abosworth great poster. - Melly-Mel For finding the Guzman stream, when nobody else could. - The_Bringer Just wanted to keep the pattern going Machine - danc1984 One of NSBs best contributors - BostonGuy 
7000 posts, congrats!! - JAB5239 To the LinkMaster! - S a m u r a i Respects to a great poster - Gift Of Gab Props on the picture! :lol1: - Spacey1991 Jussi Jääskeläinen - ЯiZО 
For Busting Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 To Celebrate The Exposure Of Rafael Benitez aka Slimey Limey - poet682006 thanks for the lesson! - mellow_mood This gift is for the videos you posted on my Tyson/Patterson thread a while back.  I recently noticed you posted some great interview videos of Patterson on the thread which I missed at the time because I didn’t follow up on checking the responses. - Benny Leonard For doing a great Glen Johnson highlight video! - St Lion 
To a great historian - Stoppage Good debate. No hard feelings. - Method Checker HERES TO YOU LEFTY - markbnlv Thanks for sharing your boxing knowledge. - Talisayen No Message - dancovboxer 
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Quote:
Once Patterson won the championship, D'Amato carefully selected his opponents both with an eye towards maximizing revenues for his fighter and thwarting the International Boxing Club (IBC). Although it meant bypassing many top challengers, D'Amato refused to match his fighter in any bout promoted by the powerful but corrupt IBC. The IBC was eventually found to be in violation of anti-trust laws and was dissolved. However, D'Amato's stance had the unintended effect of decreasing interest in boxing because Patterson fought infrequently and did not face many top contenders.
http://www.ibhof.com/d%27amato.htm
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#7
Old 10-28-2008, 04:22 PM
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Dude, you're like a boxing encyclopedia, I love it!!
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#8
Old 10-28-2008, 04:54 PM
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Dude, you're like a boxing encyclopedia, I love it!!
Tell me about it!

If in doubt, ask The Manchine. The god of Boxingscene.
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