The Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas referee count myth busted.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Anthony342

With that being true, what was the deal with the second Ali/Liston fight? Jersey Joe Walcott never even started his count because he couldn't get Ali to a neutral corner. They said on Ringside that the rule is the ref is supposed to have the fighter leave the ring if he can't get the fighter still standing to a neutral corner? So then, the fight was stopped when Walcott was told by the timekeeper that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds, but the ref never really started his count, so what was the deal there?

Supposedly, Liston years later was in a diner talking about the fight saying he must have lost because Nat Fleischer (of Ring Magazine) said he lost, since it was Fleischer who pointed out that Liston had been down for more than 10 seconds. Was this fight some kind of exception then?

While I believe Liston would have lost anyway, Walcott blew that fight by listening to Fliescher, who was there in no official capacity. Liston could have gotten up in my opinion but wasn't obligated to until the ref started and finished his count, which never happened.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Originally Posted by Sugarj

Therefore my argument was always that the first count should have been the only count that mattered that night. Tyson could have easily walked away with a knockout with a different referee......not that he would have deserved the win, I doubt it would have benefitted him much either. Holyfield was waiting around the corner!

It also might have been a good wake up call for him to get into shape physically and mentally because he was not invinsable.

[Sugarj]

Originally Posted by SBleeder

Actually, if the fight had gone to the judges after nine rounds, it would have been a draw. One of the two Japanese judges (the third was an American, who was the only one of the three actually watching the fight) had the fight even... the other had Tyson ahead by a point. If anyone had a legitimate complaint about the non-principals of the fight, it would have been Douglas.

Thats shocking, I watched the fight only two weeks ago and seem to remember only giving Mike 2 rounds and maybe an even. Buster should have been several rounds infront. Some judges!!

[Sugarj]

Originally Posted by RossCA

It also might have been a good wake up call for him to get into shape physically and mentally because he was not invinsable.

Well...........he got that wakeup call regardless. He was certainly much better for Tilman, Stewart and Ruddock than he was for Buster.

[poet682006]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

While I believe Liston would have lost anyway, Walcott blew that fight by listening to Fliescher, who was there in no official capacity. Liston could have gotten up in my opinion but wasn't obligated to until the ref started and finished his count, which never happened.

Originally Posted by Anthony342

With that being true, what was the deal with the second Ali/Liston fight? Jersey Joe Walcott never even started his count because he couldn't get Ali to a neutral corner. They said on Ringside that the rule is the ref is supposed to have the fighter leave the ring if he can't get the fighter still standing to a neutral corner? So then, the fight was stopped when Walcott was told by the timekeeper that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds, but the ref never really started his count, so what was the deal there?

Supposedly, Liston years later was in a diner talking about the fight saying he must have lost because Nat Fleischer (of Ring Magazine) said he lost, since it was Fleischer who pointed out that Liston had been down for more than 10 seconds. Was this fight some kind of exception then?

Walcott was not a qualified referee in the first place. A real ref would have told Fleischer to shut and sit down.

Poet

[Anthony342]

Originally Posted by poet682006

Walcott was not a qualified referee in the first place. A real ref would have told Fleischer to shut and sit down.

Poet

LOL true. So is that really the rule though? If a ref can't get a fighter to go to a neutral corner, he can tell him to leave the ring?

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Anthony342

LOL true. So is that really the rule though? If a ref can't get a fighter to go to a neutral corner, he can tell him to leave the ring?

I don't know if he could make him leave the ring, but disqualification would seem realistic in my opinion.

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

I don't know if he could make him leave the ring, but disqualification would seem realistic in my opinion.

I think a no contest would have been the best option. It wasn't just one fiasco but several fiascos. Liston's strange act on the canvas, Ali never going to a neutral corner, Liston never getting a proper count despite being down about 20 seconds and then the ref stopping the fight on the say so of a ringside journalist when both men were back fighting.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Kid McCoy

I think a no contest would have been the best option. It wasn't just one fiasco but several fiascos. Liston's strange act on the canvas, Ali never going to a neutral corner, Liston never getting a proper count despite being down about 20 seconds and then the ref stopping the fight on the say so of a ringside journalist when both men were back fighting.

Agreed. I didn't even think of that.