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#11
Old 11-06-2010, 01:54 PM
Tiozzo
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Originally Posted by Scott9945 View Post
People often forget that there is nothing in the rules about a fallen boxer having to get up in 10 seconds. It says he must get up before the referee counts to ten. Ideally it would take 10 seconds, but it is not measured by a clock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
Exactly: The ref's count is the only one that's official.

Poet
the ref is supposed to pick up the count ringside, so this doesn't make sense at all

the count rythm isn't supposed to be subjective...
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#12
Old 11-06-2010, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SBleeder View Post
That argument would have some merit, if it were not for Douglas clearly being more frustrated than hurt, as evidenced by his pounding the canvas, focusing completely on the referee's count, and springing quickly to his feet as the count approached ten.

Unless you can show that Douglas wasn't simply waiting it out on the canvas (I've trained with pros who have told me that that is a common strategy when being knocked down), and that he couldn't have gotten up earlier if he had to, then the whole "Tyson could have won with a different referee" thing is a crock.
good post

it is like the people sayinf Hearns would have beaten Ray Leonard in a 12 round fight the first time around

these idiots don't realize that with less rounds to go, Leonard would have fought differently, with more urgency, so maybe he would have ko'ed Hearns in the 10th or 11th had it been a 12 rounder, we just don't know

but people don't take that into account, they take the short cut that fit their agenda

Douglas definitely looked like a man taking his time on the canvas before getting up, he would probably have beaten a good count
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#13
Old 11-06-2010, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatteredKessler View Post
the ref is supposed to pick up the count ringside, so this doesn't make sense at all

the count rythm isn't supposed to be subjective...
The referee isn't obligated to pick up the timekeeper's count. The referee's, in fact, isn't supposed to start until the other fighter goes to the neutral corner. The rules are a fighter is considered KOed when the referee counts 10 NOT when 10 seconds elapse. The only thing the timekeeper does that's official is time the 3 minute rounds and 1 minute breaks.

Fighters are taught to pick up the referee's count NOT the timekeeper's. Why? Because the ref's count is the only one that counts.

Poet
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#14
Old 11-06-2010, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
'Springing quickly to his feet'!!!! Ha ha.

The video is above!!!!, he didn't start shifting till he heard seven.....which is risky in itself, his rising was very slow over the next two seconds with his glove on his left leg for leverage, he was a touch lucky to have beat it! Though no less brave, full credit to Buster.

Many refs wave a fight off if a fighter cant beat 9......let alone 10. Check out Ali vs Foreman.

I was very glad for Buster, he deserved that fight. Nothing more to add really.

Going from being perfectly motionless to being on one's feet in two seconds is what I'd call getting up quickly.
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#15
Old 11-06-2010, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
The referee isn't obligated to pick up the timekeeper's count. The referee's, in fact, isn't supposed to start until the other fighter goes to the neutral corner. The rules are a fighter is considered KOed when the referee counts 10 NOT when 10 seconds elapse. The only thing the timekeeper does that's official is time the 3 minute rounds and 1 minute breaks.

Fighters are taught to pick up the referee's count NOT the timekeeper's. Why? Because the ref's count is the only one that counts.

Poet
???

yes, the referee first sends the opponent to a neutral corner, but the count starts when you touch the canvas, hence why a lot of the counts ''start'' at 4 when the ref gets back to the dropped fighter after taking care of the KD scorer and picking up the count ringside (isn't this obvious ?)

all good refs pick the count ringside, otherwise, you get some bullcrap counts like the ones we can observe in the Tyson-Douglas fight...

Europeans have a much better method, if I'm not mistaken, it is the time keeper who makes the count through a mic, and the ref just follows it
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#16
Old 11-06-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatteredKessler View Post
???

yes, the referee first sends the opponent to a neutral corner, but the count starts when you touch the canvas, hence why a lot of the counts ''start'' at 4 when the ref gets back to the dropped fighter after taking care of the KD scorer and picking up the count ringside (isn't this obvious ?)

all good refs pick the count ringside, otherwise, you get some bullcrap counts like the ones we can observe in the Tyson-Douglas fight...

Europeans have a much better method, if I'm not mistaken, it is the time keeper who makes the count through a mic, and the ref just follows it
The reason it's the referee's count that matters is so that a fighter who refuses to go or is slow in going to the neutral corner does not profit from his own malfeasance. That's why the traditional referee count of 10 was retained after the neutral corner rule was intalled back in the 1920s as opposed to a rigid 10 seconds.

Seriously though, do we really want Europeanize pro-boxing? Euros have too much of an amatuer-boxing mentality for my tastes.

Poet
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#17
Old 11-06-2010, 05:38 PM
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I believe the ref would have let Tyson continue had he not been so beat. He had to call the fight, as he would have just taken more punishment and gone done right away. He wasn't fit to continue and I think that's why it was stopped, more so than just the count.
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#18
Old 11-06-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBleeder View Post
Going from being perfectly motionless to being on one's feet in two seconds is what I'd call getting up quickly.

Good for Buster, we've both seen the video.......if that looked quick to you so be it, it looked just in the nick of time to me.

Other men may not have got up at all! Lugging 230 Lbs of the canvas in round 10 after a nasty knockdown deserves respect no matter how quick he rose.......and as I've always said Buster deserved that night, he was terrific!
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#19
Old 11-06-2010, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
I believe the ref would have let Tyson continue had he not been so beat. He had to call the fight, as he would have just taken more punishment and gone done right away. He wasn't fit to continue and I think that's why it was stopped, more so than just the count.
Yes, Mike was tired, trailing on the scorecards and had just taken.....quite honestly one of the best combinations culmulating in a knockdown, that I've ever seen in world heavyweight boxing.

He could have been hurt badly at that point.
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#20
Old 11-06-2010, 09:08 PM
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Am I missing something?

The guy says both counts were the same amount of time.

Douglas, who went down first, wasn't counted out. Tyson was.

So what point is he trying to make?
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