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#11
Old 11-05-2010, 07:29 AM
One more round
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No fighter is unbeatable, go away wlad owns
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#12
Old 11-05-2010, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Byrd was not that lucky , he simply made Vitali miss to the point where Vitali punched his own shoulder out .


Besides , I think that prime McCall and George Foreman may have given Vitali big problems as well as prime Lewis and Bowe. I do think that Vitali should rank higher than Lewis and should be considered a favorite to beat him prime for prime because Lewis "won" just because of the cuts which should not count like many Vitali haters and Lewis nuthuggers try to portray it.
Bullcrap. Lennox's resume alone is one of the greatest in heavyweight history and he actually beat Vitali in their one and only fight, so how the hell does he rank lower? And don't give me any "Lennox was lucky to win, Vitali was beating his ass," crap because it isn't true, regardless of whether you're a Vitali/Lennox 'nuthugger' or not.
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#13
Old 11-05-2010, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Vitali was downed by Corrie Sanders

Vitali's "KO" over Ross Puritty is just the same as Lewis' "KO" over Vitali himself , so either count both as "KOs" or don't count neither , like I don't.
He hasn't won every single round since he came back either, but don't feed the troll.
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#14
Old 11-05-2010, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hottamale View Post
He hasn't won every single round since he came back either, but don't feed the troll.
He may have lost one to Arreola.
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#15
Old 11-05-2010, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Byrd was not that lucky , he simply made Vitali miss to the point where Vitali punched his own shoulder out .


Besides , I think that prime McCall and George Foreman may have given Vitali big problems as well as prime Lewis and Bowe. I do think that Vitali should rank higher than Lewis and should be considered a favorite to beat him prime for prime because Lewis "won" just because of the cuts which should not count like many Vitali haters and Lewis nuthuggers try to portray it.
So you say, its hard for anyone to determine that. Could be been a preexisting injury.
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#16
Old 11-05-2010, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It's Ovah View Post
First off I don't think Vitali's unbeatable, but I also don't think any fighter barring Wlad today possesses the right mix of attributes and skills to pull off a win. Haye's got the speed and power, but lacks the chin and stamina. Adamek's got the adaptability and stamina but lacks the power or the size. Solis has got the power and the skill but lacks the discipline. And the list goes on.

I think, hypothetically, the type of fighter to beat him would be someone who possesses the fleet footedness to stay on the outside way out of range of Vit's shots, and the timing to leap in with quick hurtful shots of his own, the way Haye did at times to Valuev. He would also need the tricksy head movement of a Chris Byrd to avoid Vitali's return shots when in the pocket. The hypothetical fighter would have to maintain intelligent pressure all night long, ie not just stomping forward throwing the occasional jab, right hand like Arreola, Peter, Williams and countless others did, but making Vitali work with feints, side to side movement, body and head shots etc. JC Gomez had a a bit of success with this in the early rounds. Mr Hypothetical probably can't expect to just blast Vitali out of there in the first few rounds, or even win the first few rounds, so he has to put work in the bank, attack Vitali's body with straight shots, with the occasional overhand to keep him guessing. Whilst he's doing that he'll need to constantly pivot around Vitali's power side to take the sting off his right hand, without making it clear he's doing so. By the mid rounds, hopefully Vitali will be hurting from the body shots (hard to say since no one's really made a concerted effort to go to his body, but let's assume he is) Mr Hypothetical can start to go upstairs more with hurtful shots a la Hide and Sanders, catch Vitali's respect and prevent him from steamrolling him. If he does find himself being pushed back by Vitali's pressure, he needs to try to get low, bob and weave out of the way of Vitali's rights and lefts, but with his guard up to prevent uppercuts, as well as the presence of mind to know when Vitali gives him an opening for a counter as Sanders was able to do at times. Alternatively, he could adopt the Kevin Johnson shoulder roll against the ropes, which was extremely effective at negating Vitali's best work, but this wouldn't really give him too many opportunities to effectively counter given the pressure he'd be under. Speaking of Johnson, a good jab would be essential in this matchup. Vitali's vulnerable to a quick long jab and tends to mark up easily; even Sosnowski was catching him at times. I don't think maintaining the jab against Vitali is a winning strategy, rather, Mr Hypothetical would need to use it as one of many tools to keep Vitali honest, along with the bodyshots, overhands, etc. If he can stick to his gameplan and minimise the damage he receives then the later rounds become very interesting. Is Vitali hurt, is he tired, is he disheartened? He was certainly all three at the end of the Lennox fight, but that was a long time ago now, and involved a horrendous cut to boot. I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of a KO or TKO here, good as Vitali's chin is, but more likely they would fight to a decision. This is where Mr Hypothetical's heart, concentration and ability to fight through debilitating exhaustion comes into play, because he will have most certainly expended a hell of a lot of energy both nervous and physical up to this point. As mentioned above, the only fighter to really show the ability to do that was Lennox, and that was only a six round fight! How many fighters today possess the type of mindset to do that? Only Adamek, to my mind.

So, anyway, I'm not saying the above is a watertight blueprint for beating Vitali, since there are a lot of unknown factors involved. Rather, it's a collection of things that various opponents (most of whom lost the fight) had success against Vitali with at times. Also, I've avoided trying to make a superman, or of trying to match height and weight with Vitali since big skilled men are extremely rare. Instead, I've assumed that Mr Hypothetical is around the 6 foot 1, 6 foot 3 mark, and around 220 - 230lb, since traditionally this is where the most skillful heavyweights have been in height and weight.
That is a very good assessment but you came close to making a complete fighter and if this hypothetical HW existed he would no doubt have plenty of nutthugger on this forum.
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#17
Old 11-05-2010, 01:38 PM
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There is none.

Unless you're some sort of human cyborg robot warrior, you can't beat Vitali Klitschko.
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#18
Old 11-05-2010, 05:31 PM
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Lewis didn't have time to train for Vitali during their fight and Lewis was on the decline as well. I also don't think Lewis took Vitali serious.

I noticed that pressuring Vitali and hitting him w/ meaningful shots wears him out. I don't think his endurance is that great because of his muscle mass. During the Lewis fight Manny Stewart kept telling Lewis to pressure Vitali because he thought he would wilt in the end. That is good advice for someone like Lewis because they were the same size, smaller fighters like Adamek, Chambers, Haye and Solis need to have great movement coming in and work Vitali's body and the turn him (just like PAC did to Dela Hoya and the way he is going to do Margarito). Good body punching, block or catch Vitali's punches, and turn him.

One more thing, Vitali was kicked off his Olympic team for steriod use in the mid 90's. I do have questions about such use now.
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#19
Old 11-05-2010, 06:18 PM
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Lewis didn't have time to train for Vitali during their fight and Lewis was on the decline as well. I also don't think Lewis took Vitali serious.

I noticed that pressuring Vitali and hitting him w/ meaningful shots wears him out. I don't think his endurance is that great because of his muscle mass. During the Lewis fight Manny Stewart kept telling Lewis to pressure Vitali because he thought he would wilt in the end. That is good advice for someone like Lewis because they were the same size, smaller fighters like Adamek, Chambers, Haye and Solis need to have great movement coming in and work Vitali's body and the turn him (just like PAC did to Dela Hoya and the way he is going to do Margarito). Good body punching, block or catch Vitali's punches, and turn him.

One more thing, Vitali was kicked off his Olympic team for steriod use in the mid 90's. I do have questions about such use now.
That is a rough road to take because chances are his opponents are going to get tagged alot and he is a big man who hits hard. It would take someone with plenty of will and a fantastic chin to do that but IDK where you get him not having good stamina when he has been known especially recently to thrown around 1K punches per fight.
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#20
Old 11-06-2010, 09:41 AM
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That is a very good assessment but you came close to making a complete fighter and if this hypothetical HW existed he would no doubt have plenty of nutthugger on this forum.
Not really. Quite a few of those fighters I mentioned had similar styles. Really I think the best summation would be a Chris Byrd with power, steam-piston jab and an Adamek will to win.
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