Vadim Finkelstein: Brock Lesnar Is Just A Product Of UFC’s PR

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by PopoFreitas

in other words are you saying that randy and herring are comparable to cans?

herring had just beat kongo and got mauled by brock, suffered multiple injuries, including a broken orbital bone. that says more about brock than anything else.

randy was just the champion and after being beat by brock he is 3-1 in his last 4. that was brock's THIRD FIGHT in his career.

A can is someone like zuluzinho, kosaka, ogawa, nagata, post surgery hong choi, tony sylvester, josh thompson, tae hyun lee, michael knapp, kanehara nikulas cikinas, washed up gary goodridge, mark hunt and fujita, etc.

Really, nogodoshi, the last thing you can criticize lesnar is the level of his opponents. NO ONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF MMA FOUGHT AS MANY HIGH LEVEL OPPONENTS IN THEIR FIRST 7 FIGHTS.

No one. Don't even try to debate this unless you're just another moroncountry.

Brock has beat more top10 fighters in his short career than Overeem in 40+ fights. Just don't go that route, please.

You andBrock should just already.

Hahahaha your whole post is a complete FAIL!!!!!

Hey Popo youll love this video, some man love between Joe and Brock me thinks.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfg...k-lesnar_sport

[PopoFreitas]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

You andBrock should just already.

Hahahaha your whole post is a complete FAIL!!!!!

Hey Popo youll love this video, some man love between Joe and Brock me thinks.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfg...k-lesnar_sport

troll. Did you got banned from UG too?

[Mugicha]

Originally Posted by PopoFreitas

in other words are you saying that randy and herring are comparable to cans?

herring had just beat kongo and got mauled by brock, suffered multiple injuries, including a broken orbital bone. that says more about brock than anything else.

randy was just the champion and after being beat by brock he is 3-1 in his last 4. that was brock's THIRD FIGHT in his career.

A can is someone like zuluzinho, kosaka, ogawa, nagata, post surgery hong choi, tony sylvester, josh thompson, tae hyun lee, michael knapp, kanehara nikulas cikinas, washed up gary goodridge, mark hunt and fujita, etc.

Really, nogodoshi, the last thing you can criticize lesnar is the level of his opponents. NO ONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF MMA FOUGHT AS MANY HIGH LEVEL OPPONENTS IN THEIR FIRST 7 FIGHTS.

No one. Don't even try to debate this unless you're just another moroncountry.

Brock has beat more top10 fighters in his short career than Overeem in 40+ fights. Just don't go that route, please.

As usual, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

As I've pointed out, Brock's wins are inflated. Funny you feel the need to call other people moron when you are the one who clearly doesn't know shit.

And just for the record, Dan Henderson definitely fought better competition in his initial fights. Randy Couture arguably did as well. Hell, so did Mark Hunt. Joe Warren has too. As did Kazushi Sakuraba. Kazuyuki Fujita too. The main difference? These guys weren't novelty fighters being hyped up for all they were worth and then some every inch of the way. They instead had to earn their keep and their worth.

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by Nodogoshi

As usual, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

As I've pointed out, Brock's wins are inflated. Funny you feel the need to call other people moron when you are the one who clearly doesn't know shit.

And just for the record, Dan Henderson definitely fought better competition in his initial fights. Randy Couture arguably did as well. Hell, so did Mark Hunt. Joe Warren has too. As did Kazushi Sakuraba. Kazuyuki Fujita too. The main difference? These guys weren't novelty fighters being hyped up for all they were worth and then some every inch of the way. They instead had to earn their keep and their worth.

I agree!!!!!

I also find it funny that Popo tries to cast me as a troll when he infact has been very wrong in most of his assessments. Mark Hunt is a top kickboxer and his MMA record is filled with the whose who of MMA, the guuy certainly went up against the baddest of the bad.

[PopoFreitas]

Originally Posted by Nodogoshi

As usual, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


As I've pointed out, Brock's wins are inflated. Funny you feel the need to call other people moron when you are the one who clearly doesn't know shit.

That's just your opinion, dude.

I don't care about your opinion, dude. You're biased as hell. you probably think Overeem, the can crusher, fought more top10 fighters in his last 7wins then brock lol. What matters here are the facts. I mentioned credible rankings such as MMAWeekly, Sherdog and FightMatrix to base my posts, you can whine as much as you wants but the fact is that brock fought a top3 fighter in his third fight. Lets not forget he was the defending champion and also fought another 3 top10 fighters in his 7 fights and thats a FACT. You think his wins were inflated? Ok. Good for ya. I think most Overeem's wins are straight up tomato cans but I have to admit that some people may call them "washed up" or top200 fighters". Your opinion means as much as anyone's opinion.

And just for the record, Dan Henderson definitely fought better competition in his initial fights.

AHAHAA HAHAHA AHAHAHA

WTF? hahahaha Are you trolling me?
Hendo's first 7 fights:

Gilbert Yvel
Hiromitsu Kanehara
Bakouri Gogitidze
Carlos Newton
Allan Goes
Eric Smith
Crezio de Souza

And you have the nerve to say I don't know ****? lol. Hendo fought a single top10 fighter in Carlos Newton a top15 Fighter in Allan Goes.

Randy Couture arguably did as well.

ahhahaha
Randy's first seven fights:

Ryushi Yanagisawa
Jeremy Horn
Enson Inoue
Mikhail Iloukhine
Vitor Belfort
Steven Graham
Tony Halme

2 top10 fighters. 5-2 record

Lol, you're either a troll or just stupid. You got owned in the overeems thread and showed even more your lack of knowledge.

Hell, so did Mark Hunt.

Josh Barnett
Tsuyoshi Kosaka
Yosuke Nishijima
Mirko Filipovic
Wanderlei Silva
Dan Bobish
Hidehiko Yoshida

Hunt fought 3 top10 fighters, came close to Brock's 4 and 3 tomato cans and a top15 fighter in Yoshida. Still his wins over Cro Cop and W SIlva were controversial as hell at the time. 5-2 record too.

Joe Warren has too.

Joe Warren is close. Fought 3 top10 FWs and one top15. Still not 4 top10 fighters and 2 top20 like brock.

Once again: you're wrong.

As did Kazushi Sakuraba.

Saku's first 7 fights:
Ebenezer Fontes Braga
Vitor Belfort
Allan Goes
Carlos Newton
Vernon White
Marcus Silveira
Kimo Leopoldo

2 top10 fighters and 2 top20 fighters. 4-1-1(draw)-1(NC) record.

Wrong again

Kazuyuki Fujita too.

Fujita's first 7 fights:
Gilbert Yvel
Ken Shamrock
Mark Coleman
Mark Kerr
Will Childs
Dan Chase
Hans Nijman

6-1 record. Fought 3 top10 fighters and 3 cans. Still, not as many top fighters as Brock so you've proven WRONG once again

and before you try a comeback, here's what I wrote and I even used caps:

Really, nogodoshi, the last thing you can criticize about lesnar is the level of his opponents. NO ONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF MMA FOUGHT AS MANY HIGH LEVEL OPPONENTS IN THEIR FIRST 7 FIGHTS.

PS: I don't take my opinion as the absolute truth like you do. There are some fighters that I think weren't top10 fighters back then but I still said they were top10 because most ranks had them in their top10. You should do the same.

PPS: Are you going to find a tangent? Last time I you you said "haha, I was just joking" "I never knew people took forums so serious"

Remember that?

Hahaha.

The main difference? These guys weren't novelty fighters being hyped up for all they were worth and then some every inch of the way. They instead had to earn their keep and their worth.

Hahaha, wtf are you talking about? Most fighters you mentioned fought in Pride, dude. Pride was build thru novelty fights. That's why it was so good, they wouldn't sell us just fights but history behind them, rivalries, backgrounds, etc. Still, most of champions in pride fought a lot of tomato cans, legends like sakuraba had fights fixed there etc and I'm surprised I have to teach you this since you're from Japan yourself.

[PopoFreitas]

Btw, I call him moroncountry because that's his nickaname. As you can see, he doesn't mind me calling him that. Once he complains I would stop immediatly but he wont because he's a troll and likes atention

If you want to know more about him type this on google's search bar:

site:htpp://www.sherdog.net/forums moroncountry

Exactly as that. You'll find 20+pages of threads people calling him moroncountry and laughting to his stupid quotes such as:

The UFC is like the Major League Soccer (MLS), they do not have the best fighters. But unlike Soccer, these UFC guys are barred from fighting international competition.

[Mugicha]

I said "initial fights" not the Brock Standard of 7 fights.

Even using the "7 fight standard" though there is a considerably strong case to be made in most instances.

As for Henderson, he was a natural middleweight fighting in many cases heavyweights.

You mention Gilbert Yvel as the last of 7. What you don't mention is that on the very same night he fought and defeated Big Nog and Renato Sobral. That's right, a middleweight veteran of 6 fights in Henderson knocked off Yvel, Big Nog, and Sobral in the same night. This is far more impressive than any of Brock's wins (his 6 wins going in were all 2 fight tournaments as well, so we're talking about 9 wins in 4 nights). You'd have to be a complete moron to argue that Brock's 7 fight run is more impressive (a run in which he's 5-2 and was losing handily in one more until his opponent defeated himself, and was losing to a 45 year old natural LHW who hadn't fought in 15 months before catching the much smaller man with a righthand behind the ear).

Anybody can surf records on sherdog, it doesn't make your "opinion" any more valid (I put it in quotes because I doubt if it is really your own original thought). And if I remember correctly, Couture wasn't even ranked at the time (due to his layoff), and neither was Herring (or are you counting Mir twice?)

Hunt's lineup is also filled with far more quality names. Yoshida, Silva, old Crocop, Kosaka and Barnett are a tremendous lineup. And how about 8 and 9? Fedor and Overeem.

I'll let your post speak for itself though for the most part. The fact that you actually believe Brock is a top HW and not a product of marketing says a lot. The funny thing is Brock is little more than a white UFC version of Bob Sapp (with more hype, though less marketing).

And I'm not from Japan.

[Mugicha]

Btw, which of Sakuraba's fights were fixed? Do enlighten me.

[monaroCountry]

That's just your opinion, dude.

I don't care about your opinion, dude. You're biased as hell. you probably think Overeem, the can crusher, fought more top10 fighters in his last 7wins then brock lol. What matters here are the facts. I mentioned credible rankings such as MMAWeekly, Sherdog and FightMatrix to base my posts, you can whine as much as you wants but the fact is that brock fought a top3 fighter in his third fight. Lets not forget he was the defending champion and also fought another 3 top10 fighters in his 7 fights and thats a FACT. You think his wins were inflated? Ok. Good for ya. I think most Overeem's wins are straight up tomato cans but I have to admit that some people may call them "washed up" or top200 fighters". Your opinion means as much as anyone's opinion.

It could very easily be argued that those guys Brock fought SHOULD NEVER have been in the top ten in the first place. The only reason they were ever regarded as such is because they fight for the UFC, not because of their skills and their achievements.
Randy has lost more than 1/3 of his fights, this is basically every third fight he somehow looses, no one in their right mind would ever rank him in the top 10 or ass an elite MMA fighter, simply put there are other more deserving fighters. Furthermore Randy had a very long layoff before the fight and also was a very old fighter already far removed from his prime.
Herring was destroyed by Fedor in the first round yet Brock couldn’t even finish him in the three rounds against an aging Herring.
Carwin couldn’t even fricken last 4 minutes without tiring.......can you even contemplate how amateurish this is? Professional fighters should be able to last AT LEAST more than 2 rounds in a 5 round contest, especially one with the belt dangling down.
Finally, ALL OF THOSE HW GUYS that Overeem fought has better standup than Brock (some far far far far better) and ALL OF THOSE GUYS have far better stamina/cardio than Shane Carwin.

Hahaha, wtf are you talking about? Most fighters you mentioned fought in Pride, dude. Pride was build thru novelty fights. That's why it was so good, they wouldn't sell us just fights but history behind them, rivalries, backgrounds, etc. Still, most of champions in pride fought a lot of tomato cans, legends like sakuraba had fights fixed there etc and I'm surprised I have to teach you this since you're from Japan yourself.

Some of those fighters might be a novice in MMA but have proven themselves at the top level in another combat sport, the very top level. They didn’t just get hyped up from some college gym , those guys earnt their stripes the old fashioned way.