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#11
Old 10-27-2010, 10:10 PM
paulsinghnl
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i'm not a Tyson fanboy, let's have that first. second of all, Tyson is always talkin about the close relationship they had. yeah of course, Tyson was Cus' prized horse, i'm under no illusion. but he kept him on the right track with the discipline. like i said: he would become more of a PROFESSIONAL! and stay focused.

Tyson was a brute and a savage, but he was a brilliant technical fighter in the ring to me. and he's a lot smarter than ppl think. he was just weak minded and easily influenced.

oh well.. nice to think about anything. thanks for this thread, that was my 4x2 cents, hahaha.
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#12
Old 10-28-2010, 12:39 AM
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A lot of Tysons bad attitude came from how things turned out for him, along with bad influences from friends and Don King. Tyson wasn't raised right, that's obvious. Unlike most of the great fighters, he needed a man like Cus to reach his goal, to keep that goal alive. I'm pretty sure Holyfield and Lewis wouldn't have turned out the great champions they are if Tyson was there in full force during their careers. I think Larry Merchant was right in saying Tyson needed to be young to be successful with the type of aggressive style he had. He might have been eventually overthrown by Lewis when he reached his early 30's. I think Tyson would have went down as the second greatest HW of all time just behind Ali unless Tyson had some tough challenges in Lewis and Holyfield and proved he had tremendous heart. We can only speculate but I completely disagree with those who write him off as nothing. He was on the road to becoming the greatest HW ever.
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#13
Old 10-28-2010, 09:05 AM
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Tyson would have had a far more successful career with D'mato guidance in my opinion. It's not hard to see how Tyson went off the rails after D'mato passed on, he was the only real guy who helped Tyson turn his life around, along with being respected by him. For me, D'mato would have layed the damn law down with Tyson, and wouldn't have span out of control like he did. D'mato had Tysons respect, something that was very hard to get from him. I have no doubt Tyson would have been one of the most successful HW's to ever step foot in the ring had D'mato been by his side.
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#14
Old 10-28-2010, 09:23 AM
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D'amato didn't discipline Tyson after he groped Teddy Atlas' niece. He had no interest in helping Tyson become a decent human being. Tyson was simply his meal ticket. Tyson would still be the lunatic rapist he is today, regardless of whether D'amato were alive.

As far as in the ring, I've always believed that Tyson went as far as his skills could carry him. He was not talented enough to beat truly elite heavyweights, and I think Holyfield would have taken his title had Douglas not done it first.
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#15
Old 10-28-2010, 09:42 AM
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Tyson would have dominated the heavyweight division for the 90s and would have retired undefeated. Marciano and Louis' record would have all been broken.

He was Frazier with the punching power of Foreman and with speed only bettered by Ali. Also he had significant advantages over Frazier in chin and Foreman in stamina. Tyson was the perfect fighter, only Ali stands a chance against him prime for prime.

Lennox lewis was good but his prime ability was not great. You cant really say what was a prime Lewis because throughout his carrear he was always vulnerable. Tyson would have KOed him just like Mccall and Rahman.

I see Holyfield getting stopped in a 6 round war. Bowe probably stands the best chance with that upercut, but I can see Tyson stopping him late on.
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#16
Old 10-28-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morales. View Post
Tyson would have dominated the heavyweight division for the 90s and would have retired undefeated. Marciano and Louis' record would have all been broken.

He was Frazier with the punching power of Foreman and with speed only bettered by Ali. Also he had significant advantages over Frazier in chin and Foreman in stamina. Tyson was the perfect fighter, only Ali stands a chance against him prime for prime.

Lennox lewis was good but his prime ability was not great. You cant really say what was a prime Lewis because throughout his carrear he was always vulnerable. Tyson would have KOed him just like Mccall and Rahman.

I see Holyfield getting stopped in a 6 round war. Bowe probably stands the best chance with that upercut, but I can see Tyson stopping him late on.

Uhh, Please explain to me the Tony Tucker fight then. Tucker showed how a bigger guy could beat Tyson and Tony Tucker wasnt very good, let alone a Boew, Lewis, Klitschko. Holyfield getting stopped? By Tyson? Based on what? Tyson was too small, didnt have the reach and got frustrated easily.

You also realize that the guys who KO'ed Lewis in rematched got KO'ed themselves?

Its too bad Tucker broke his hand early in that fight, because had he not, i think we would have a lot less crazy Tyson fans acting like he was some god. Im not saying Tucker would have won, but that would have been a really close fight imo.
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#17
Old 10-28-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die Antwoord View Post
Uhh, Please explain to me the Tony Tucker fight then. Tucker showed how a bigger guy could beat Tyson and Tony Tucker wasnt very good, let alone a Boew, Lewis, Klitschko. Holyfield getting stopped? By Tyson? Based on what? Tyson was too small, didnt have the reach and got frustrated easily.

You also realize that the guys who KO'ed Lewis in rematched got KO'ed themselves?

Its too bad Tucker broke his hand early in that fight, because had he not, i think we would have a lot less crazy Tyson fans acting like he was some god. Im not saying Tucker would have won, but that would have been a really close fight imo.
Forget it, man. Tyson fanboy nuthuggers will never admit that their hero had any weaknesses. They've bought into the myth that Tyson was some kind of improved version of Frazier; in reality, Frazier was far superior to Tyson.
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#18
Old 10-28-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza View Post
Tyson fanboys think cus is some magical boxing jesus that could turn tyson into an angle. Fact is, cus made a living off of picking out young black kids from the street and turning them into profitable boxers. He did it with patterson and he did it with tyson. He was in the relationship for the money, not to be a father figure for tyson.
"I can say honestly that I have a very deep affection for him, I do. To me, he's my boy, he's with me. I often say to him 'Y'know, I owe you a lot' and he doesn't know what I mean, but I'm gonna tell him now what I mean. If he weren't here, I probably wouldn't be alive today. The fact that he is here and doing what he's doing and doing as well as he's doing and improving as he has gives me the motivation and interest to stay alive. 'Cause I believe that a person dies when they no longer wants to live. But I have a reason with Mike here. And he gives me the motivation, I will stay alive and I will watch him become a success. Because I will not leave until that happens."


I think it's safe to say that, at that point in his life, the work Cus was doing with Tyson meant a lot more to him than just money.





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#19
Old 10-28-2010, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBleeder View Post
D'amato didn't discipline Tyson after he groped Teddy Atlas' niece. He had no interest in helping Tyson become a decent human being. Tyson was simply his meal ticket.
This contradicts Mike's own testimony. Not specifically re. the incident involving Atlas' niece (accounts of which seem to vary), but in general re. D'Amato showing guidance of his character in and out of the ring.
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#20
Old 10-28-2010, 06:51 PM
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and Sky Sports said about Haye in the Ruiz fight that "he's the fastest heavyweight ever."...
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