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#11
Old 10-01-2010, 02:40 PM
Virgil Caine
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I agree, the rules are fucked in favor of wrestlers, and GSP is a lay and prayer.

Fuck it, I'll repost my post from another forum on this.

Quote:
Well, it's true that the judging is severely flawed. I don't see why anyone should get flamed for simply pointing this out.

People that say guys should just learn to wrestle rather than bitch don't know shit about wrestling. There's a big difference between, say a guy with 15-20 years of wrestling experience and someone who adjusted a 3 month training camp to focus more on wrestling. The rules are fucked and need to be changed. It's ridiculous that takedowns are counted for so much. A guy can get taken down and laid on, get 3 near submissions from the bottom, and take absolutely no damage, and the judges will side with the guy who got the take down. The wrestler bias is also why you see guys rock someone, and then rather than go for the finish, they opt for a takedown against their stunned opponent because they know it will favor them on the cards. And it's also why you have guys competing for takedowns during the final minute of a fight, rather than slugging it out. The wrestling bias is killing the sport as far as I'm concerned.
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#12
Old 10-01-2010, 02:59 PM
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It baffles me that people think GSP is a lay and pray fighter, when he is clearly the most active fighter in the UFC. Constantly improving position, submission attempts, and savage ground n pound = Lay and Pray? GTFO, You want to see lay and pray, watch Severn, Shields, Koscheck, Arona, Sherk....
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#13
Old 10-01-2010, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kaps View Post
It baffles me that people think GSP is a lay and pray fighter, when he is clearly the most active fighter in the UFC. Constantly improving position, submission attempts, and savage ground n pound = Lay and Pray? GTFO, You want to see lay and pray, watch Severn, Shields, Koscheck, Arona, Sherk....
Good post. GSP is very active on the ground.

I think fans are just frustrated because he's not that great of a finisher and I think that's his biggest weakness these days. He improved his other weakness which was his lack of confidence.

It annoys me because GSP is fun to watch in my opinion and I don't like people throwing him in there with names like Maynard, Koskcheck, Evans, and Shields.

GSP tries to finish and does a good amount of damage on his opponents compared to the real lay and prayers.
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#14
Old 10-01-2010, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaze778 View Post
I am an American and I would take a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu expert or striker over any boring American wrestler any day of the week.
You're only 1 person from the mainstream public though. You've already been drawn in to the fold, watched and liked the product, so you've entirely (or almost entirely) taken race out of the equation of what excites you about it.

It wouldn't be the same if the UFC was making their mainstream push with the Silva's and Werdum's than the Lesnar's, Hughes', Sherk's, and Couture's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakutogi-Gumi View Post
But the people who made the rules and judge are from boxing.
Even worse, and they aren't "from boxing" the commission positions are idiot, corrupted bureaucrat appointees. All the commissions are weak and constantly corrupted by promoters, essentially converted into puppets.
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#15
Old 10-01-2010, 08:53 PM
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In his last fight GSP continually took down Hardy, who is not particularly skilled when on his back. In 25 minutes he inflicted about the same amount of damage that Koscheck inflicted on Daley in 15 minutes. Sounds like Lay'n'Pray to me.
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#16
Old 10-01-2010, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kaps View Post
It baffles me that people think GSP is a lay and pray fighter, when he is clearly the most active fighter in the UFC. Constantly improving position, submission attempts, and savage ground n pound = Lay and Pray? GTFO, You want to see lay and pray, watch Severn, Shields, Koscheck, Arona, Sherk....
You can go ahead and take Kos off your list of lay and pray guys. What fight(s) are you speaking of.
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#17
Old 10-01-2010, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by QUELOQUE View Post
You're only 1 person from the mainstream public though. You've already been drawn in to the fold, watched and liked the product, so you've entirely (or almost entirely) taken race out of the equation of what excites you about it.

It wouldn't be the same if the UFC was making their mainstream push with the Silva's and Werdum's than the Lesnar's, Hughes', Sherk's, and Couture's.
Yeah, I am only one person, but many fans share my sentiment. I am not white either so maybe I see things differently than the mainstream public. But I do recall primarily white audiences booing 2 white wrestlers during boring fights many times. Americans love knockouts too.

But Machida got a pretty good mainstream push, despite not speaking English very well. Remember the "Lyota Machida Era."

And Penn got pushed well and he's Hawaiian.

But I think you're signaling out race as opposed to nationality and language. Rampage and Evans both hosted the TUF and the UFC is very high on Evans and he fights just like those boring white American wrestlers you mentioned.

UFC is also very high on Bones Jones. He's already being billed as the future. So was Vera and Diego Sanchez at one point, both non-white Americans.

It's more of an American thing as guys like Penn and Evans get pushed pretty well despite not being white.

Last edited by blaze778; 10-01-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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#18
Old 10-01-2010, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABOSWORTH View Post
You can go ahead and take Kos off your list of lay and pray guys. What fight(s) are you speaking of.
well recently vs Daley, all he did was take him down and cause next to no damage

funny original quote is coming from someone who lost his last fight by being out-wrestled and taken down 2-3 times

Lil Nog should be madder at himself, because IMO he fought like complete garbage and looked very flat
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#19
Old 10-01-2010, 10:14 PM
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what the hells race gotta do with it, they're promoting the hell out of Anderson Silva as being the top P4p Fighter in the world an last i checked he was Black and Brazillian....people look for any kind of fault with the UFC they can dream up its ridiculous.
i hate it when fighters complain about Wrestling/Wrestlers, your fighting in mixed martial arts and you know who your opponent is an what he likes to do, the Nogueira's have Great Jiujitsu and should have been prepared for the takedowns an worked the sweeps escapes and subs from the bottom, Wrestling is Baders bread and butter they knew that long ago.
i think the strong wrestlers in the sport will force another evolution in MMA, like the Gracies forced with their GJJ.
Fighters will either develop their stand up like Machida an keep mobile to stay away from the double an single leg shoots, or people will up their Levels of BJJ to where it don't matter if their taken down an sub their Opponents.
or the obvious solution for the younger fighters would be to take wrestling and use to it augment your style.
there are alot of strong wrestlers coming into MMA and the Fighters will find their way around it one way or another.
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#20
Old 10-02-2010, 02:18 AM
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The retardation and ignorance in this thread is making me dumb. I'd better log off.
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