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#1
Old 09-11-2010, 07:58 PM
Iceta Lives
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Default Boxing talent period has decreased all across the board. Not just the Heavyweights.

This is why I actually think Vladimir and Vitali do deserve to be in the top ten P4P when I really stop to think about it. I mean, stop to ask yourself who at the top level in boxing besides Maywweather and Pacquiao dominate like those guys do?

When you look at the crop of talent in boxing today that is supposed to be the younger generation it's just sad period. You got Ring magazine hyping up guys on a P4P level before they really earn it. I'll use Chad Dawson as an example first of all. Now he actually had a good resume for a guy in his position I'll concede, but as soon as he gets in the highest spot of his career he loses to a slightly above average fighter in my opinion in Jean Pascal.

And then I'll bring up Paul Williams. His resume actually gets unjustly slighted on here because he beat a prime Margarito in hostile territory, became the first guy to stop Verno Phillips (even though I still don't view that as a very good win), beat Quintana in the most devastating fashion possible regardless if it looked lucky or not in the second fight, and became the first guy to absolutely dominate Winky Wright after Wright had just given Hopkins a good fight. Williams still has a chance to redeem his reputation because having a tough fight with Martinez isn't shameful but he looked shaky against Cintron big time and Cintron isn't a very good fighter. Williams hasn't dominated an opponent the way Klitchko has even though he fights in a stronger division. But the thing that should cause him to lose points is ducking the rematch with Martinez if that's what his intentions are.

Then just look at HBO's long list of fighters that were supposed to be the back bone of future talent even if they weren't hyped up on a P4P level. Alexander got dominated by Kotelnik and got a gift. Ortiz, Angulo, and Arreola all lost and Arreola should get more flack for being out of shape than losing to good fighters. Berto and Khan are losses waiting to happen in my opinion once they step up in comp. And I'll mention Lopez as well because he struggled with Mtwaga of all people. Tavoris Cloud should've beaten Glen Johnson more impressively than he did.

To be blunt, who dominates like the Klitchkos do that is part of the newer generation that fights in the lower divisions except maybe Andre Ward?
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#2
Old 09-11-2010, 08:03 PM
Heru
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No it hasn't, but I do somewhat agree.

Mayweather and Pacquiao wouldn't have been campaigning at 147 if it welterweight had the Napoles', Leonard's, Hearns', Curry's, etc. of years past.

Skill has decreased, talent is still there.
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#3
Old 09-11-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceta Lives View Post
This is why I actually think Vladimir and Vitali do deserve to be in the top ten P4P when I really stop to think about it. I mean, stop to ask yourself who at the top level in boxing besides Maywweather and Pacquiao dominate like those guys do?

When you look at the crop of talent in boxing today that is supposed to be the younger generation it's just sad period. You got Ring magazine hyping up guys on a P4P level before they really earn it. I'll use Chad Dawson as an example first of all. Now he actually had a good resume for a guy in his position I'll concede, but as soon as he gets in the highest spot of his career he loses to a slightly above average fighter in my opinion in Jean Pascal.

And then I'll bring up Paul Williams. His resume actually gets unjustly slighted on here because he beat a prime Margarito in hostile territory, became the first guy to stop Verno Phillips (even though I still don't view that as a very good win), beat Quintana in the most devastating fashion possible regardless if it looked lucky or not in the second fight, and became the first guy to absolutely dominate Winky Wright after Wright had just given Hopkins a good fight. Williams still has a chance to redeem his reputation because having a tough fight with Martinez isn't shameful but he looked shaky against Cintron big time and Cintron isn't a very good fighter. Williams hasn't dominated an opponent the way Klitchko has even though he fights in a stronger division. But the thing that should cause him to lose points is ducking the rematch with Martinez if that's what his intentions are.

Then just look at HBO's long list of fighters that were supposed to be the back bone of future talent even if they weren't hyped up on a P4P level. Alexander got dominated by Kotelnik and got a gift. Ortiz, Angulo, and Arreola all lost and Arreola should get more flack for being out of shape than losing to good fighters. Berto and Khan are losses waiting to happen in my opinion once they step up in comp. And I'll mention Lopez as well because he struggled with Mtwaga of all people. Tavoris Cloud should've beaten Glen Johnson more impressively than he did.

To be blunt, who dominates like the Klitchkos do that is part of the newer generation that fights in the lower divisions except maybe Andre Ward?
I would have to disagree 168 and under is stacked with good fighters,there are a lot of good matchups to be made,honestly i think this era in the lower weights, stands with other eras of boxing.Heavyweight division is terrible now though the opposition is to small to mess with the klits.
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#4
Old 09-11-2010, 08:07 PM
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I'm not going to deny how good the Klitschkos are, but they are not p4p material IMO. They do not beat the type of opponents to rate them in the top 10, and they do not have the skills to be top 10 p4p.

I know I'll get flamed now, but it's the truth.
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#5
Old 09-11-2010, 08:08 PM
Iceta Lives
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKBNLV View Post
I would have to disagree 168 and under is stacked with good fighters,there are a lot of good matchups to be made,honestly i think this era in the lower weights, stands with other eras of boxing.Heavyweight division is terrible now though the opposition is to small to mess with the klits.
If guys like Lara, Rigo, Ricardo Lopez's son, Benavidez end up making it big it wouldn't suprise me. So I'm not totally selling the newer generation short. But I'm just saying that the current crop of fighters that the boxing game is trying to pump up as stars just don't impress me and they definitely don't dominate like the Klitchkos do. The only fighters that really honestly impress me is Mares and Perez to be honest. Donaire and Lopez keep fighting bums and won't step up their comp. Same way with Gamboa even though I will admit I like his style.

Sure the Klitchkos fight in a piss poor division but they end fights with highlight KOs against fighters with all type of different fighting styles.
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#6
Old 09-11-2010, 08:16 PM
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i agreed completely with the topic title coming, not so much with the post accompanying it. paul williams isn't a good example of boxing talent declining when you're really pointing out that he's not fighting who you want him to fight, despite him beating that person already.

i think the real problem starts in the amatuer system, however. that it's not the talent that is lacking but the proper teaching.

people ask where did all the knockout punchers go but never consider the current amatuer system where body work is not rewarded and speed is favored over power. it leads to fighters coming into the pro game and having to make major adjustments to habits that got them accolades and medals as an amatuer.

it takes proper training and habits to really let talent shine through.
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#7
Old 09-11-2010, 08:19 PM
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Wlad is definitely top 10 lb for lb. He hasn't lost a damn round since his first fight with Peters.

I always compare performances like Wlads and FLoyds to baseball.

If a pitcher throws a no hitter, everyone says what a great performance. When a boxer throws a no hitter, it's a boring fight. When you get a tough fight, than you got exposed and we're over-rated. Boxing is the hardest sport to convince fans of your worthiness. Mostly because most fans don't know **** about boxing.

You just can't win sometimes.
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#8
Old 09-11-2010, 08:22 PM
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I blame the processed food generation.

Destroyed the diet of the youth with meat products that contain next to no meat.

Pros munching on protein shakes and bars like freaks when you can eat natural foods and be a great fighter.

Everyone losing their health.

Also Wlad and Vitali= Socialised medicine
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#9
Old 09-11-2010, 08:28 PM
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compare past pound for pound lists with todays.

1999
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

1996
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Oscar De La Hoya
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Ricardo Lopez
6. Junior Jones
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Terry Norris
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Mark Johnson
1993
1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. James Toney
4. Michael Carbajal
5. Orlando Canizales
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Roy Jones Jr.
9. Kennedy McKinney
10. Yuri Arbachakov

and I just chose these randomly.

puts it into perspective, doesnt it?
and its kind of funny that Mosley is in the same spot on the p4p lists, 11 years later.

Last edited by blackirish137; 09-11-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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#10
Old 09-11-2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiX View Post
Wlad is definitely top 10 lb for lb. He hasn't lost a damn round since his first fight with Peters.

I always compare performances like Wlads and FLoyds to baseball.

If a pitcher throws a no hitter, everyone says what a great performance. When a boxer throws a no hitter, it's a boring fight. When you get a tough fight, than you got exposed and we're over-rated. Boxing is the hardest sport to convince fans of your worthiness. Mostly because most fans don't know **** about boxing.

You just can't win sometimes.
Wlad lost a round or two to Tony Thompson.

and baseball is boring regardless of what happens in it.

even boring fighters generally end up with respect if they continue to win against high level opponents.
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