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#81
Old 09-08-2010, 12:40 PM
jrosales13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Ceilings View Post
This thread has been a refreshing good read.

I have a question about Armstrong though. Why is the sole Pac comparision the weight jumping thing. I dont hear much mention of the fact he defended his WW title 19 times.

Thats something Pacquiao wont come close to. I see people selling Armstrong short by outright comparing him to Manny.
There is reall no comparison with Pac and Armstrong. None whatsoever.
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#82
Old 09-08-2010, 12:41 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrosales13 View Post
The best 2 at 154? If Martinez is not campaigning there than P-Will and Dizinziruk is.

And, yes if they fight that will fill the vacancy.

And, yes the same hold for a vacant belt and the best 2 should fight for a vacant belt. Even thought I could careless about the crooked sanctioning belts.
Heres where the problem of subjectivety comes into play. ESPN has PWill at #2 in MW and not ranked at JMW. They have Sergi and Cotto 1 and 2. Ring magazine has something different. Addfitonally pwill himself says he is going to ww and had his last fight vs cintron was above 154 right?

Basically PWill because he is a top boxer can decide he wants to fight sergie and to you the winner can be declared lineal champ because you feel they are the 2 best. This is why I give more weight to actually beating the lineal champ because it takes my feelings and opinions out of it.
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#83
Old 09-08-2010, 12:41 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightleft View Post
Really? I thought he was off for another 1 or 2 years and currently on vacation?
we're busy debating here. go somehwere else.
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#84
Old 09-08-2010, 12:42 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Ceilings View Post
This thread has been a refreshing good read.

I have a question about Armstrong though. Why is the sole Pac comparision the weight jumping thing. I dont hear much mention of the fact he defended his WW title 19 times.

Thats something Pacquiao wont come close to. I see people selling Armstrong short by outright comparing him to Manny like that.
Howe many times have I pointed out manny hasn't defended a title except for clottey above 126. That has to count for something.
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#85
Old 09-08-2010, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrosales13 View Post
No you said, is not like this is the 1960's where there are ONLY 8 divisions.

By the 1960's there were already like 14 divisions.
only 11. i made a mistake in how i phrased it but if you would've read on instead of acting like the wannabe guru here and subracted half a century from now, what you get?
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#86
Old 09-08-2010, 12:46 PM
jrosales13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dunn View Post
Heres where the problem of subjectivety comes into play. ESPN has PWill at #2 in MW and not ranked at JMW. They have Sergi and Cotto 1 and 2. Ring magazine has something different. Addfitonally pwill himself says he is going to ww and had his last fight vs cintron was above 154 right?

Basically PWill because he is a top boxer can decide he wants to fight sergie and to you the winner can be declared lineal champ because you feel they are the 2 best. This is why I give more weight to actually beating the lineal champ because it takes my feelings and opinions out of it.
But, JMM and Pac were clearly the top 2. You could not find any rankings that didn't have them in the top 2 at their division at that time.

And, ESPN rankings sucks. Dan Rafael does not know what he is talking about. Go look at his bantamweight rankings and see where Moreno is al. There is no justifying those rankings. Subjective my ass he doesn't know. He evens have 105 and 108 mix together. Is not true rankings. Every division from 122 and under doesn't have a top 10 only top 5.

In closing when JMM and Pac fought it was clearly the top 2 in the division. There was not debating it. Nobody else had a case. Not even Joan Guzman had a case to be ranked ahead of the 2.
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#87
Old 09-08-2010, 12:48 PM
The Big Dunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrosales13 View Post
But, JMM and Pac were clearly the top 2. You could not find any rankings that didn't have them in the top 2 at their division at that time.

And, ESPN rankings sucks. Dan Rafael does not know what he is talking about. Go look at his bantamweight rankings and see where Moreno is al. There is no justifying those rankings. Subjective my ass he doesn't know. He evens have 105 and 108 mix together. Is not true rankings. Every division from 122 and under doesn't have a top 10 only top 5.

In closing when JMM and Pac fought it was clearly the top 2 in the division. There was not debating it. Nobody else had a case. Not even Joan Guzman had a case to be ranked ahead of the 2.
I can't recall the rankings and even so its moot. I agree they were the best. But someone else might not and that is the only problem.
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#88
Old 09-08-2010, 07:28 PM
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Pac fought 8 times at 130 and beating everyone that was significant at that division. It was unfortunate that he fought a champion only when he can no longer stay at that divison hence after winning, had to move to the next weight class.
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#89
Old 09-08-2010, 07:33 PM
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PACQUIAO is GOAT!

8 division champ and FOTD
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#90
Old 09-08-2010, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RimmyDelicious View Post
Fair enough, however, take into account that Manny won his titles over the span of 112 to 140, or 28 pounds and a fighter like Armstrong won his from 126 to 147 or 21 pounds.
but i doubt armstrong started boxing at the age of 15-16
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