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#1
Old 09-22-2014, 02:23 PM
abdelfadeel
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Default prime frazier vs prime foreman

or those of you that have watched it, you may have noticed that the ref does a very bad job in this as he allows Foreman to repeatedly get away with just shoving Joe away and pushing him to the side in order to set up his clubbing shots. Frazier actually has a fair degree of success in getting to Foreman early on and lands some decent left hooks and jabs. Foreman has trouble controlling range and keeping Frazier off him. With a different ref I think it would be interesting to see how Foreman wold have coped if he hadnt been allowed manhandle Frazier and repeadly shove him back with full on pushes. The ref should have addressed this early.

This brings me to my other point. It may seem bizzare to criticize Foreman in a fight where he blasted out such a high profile opponent - but Ive always been bothered by his tactics in this. Very little use of the jab, no real success at keeping Frazier at bay and rather untidy, wild punches. Frazier did most of his best work in close, so I would have expected Foreman to box and use his jab to set up his power shots. But crucially he seemed unable to do this and was allowed to get away with resorting to pushes and shoves followed by wild swings that left him prime to be caught square from a left hook - frazier's signature punch.

As it happened, Foremans power and roughhousing was too much for Frazier but I do think it would have been interesting to see what would have happened with a different ref. As Ali showed, Foreman could be prone to punching himself out with his big swings and the drawback of having power is that you often dont get into later rounds. Frazier for me was reasonably successful at getting to Foreman early on made possible by Foreman neglecting the jab. Had it gone on for longer with a ref that wouldnt let Foreman away with his pushing I think it would have been interesting.
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#2
Old 09-22-2014, 03:45 PM
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........
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#3
Old 09-22-2014, 05:03 PM
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Frazier was just not designed to beat foreman...
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#4
Old 09-22-2014, 05:36 PM
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3...2...1...
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#5
Old 09-22-2014, 05:36 PM
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Kind of like a completely different breed of men they were. Foreman didn't need to box at all, no matter what Frazier did, he could never hurt Foreman and could never withstand him. Too strong.
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#6
Old 09-22-2014, 06:09 PM
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George just had a style and physical makeup that caused Joe problems Joe never fought backing up.
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#7
Old 09-22-2014, 10:11 PM
abdelfadeel
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what if joe was using the 76 style?
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#8
Old 09-22-2014, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abdelfadeel View Post
what if joe was using the 76 style?
He may have lasted longer but the result would be the same
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#9
Old 09-23-2014, 05:36 AM
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I agree it is hard to imagine any other outcome between Frazier and Foreman but I have to point out it was not the same Frazier that fought Ali. After beating Ali, Frazier was fed a couple tomato cans over the next couple years. He put on weight and didn't train like he did before Ali. For the Stander fight he was twelve pounds heavier than he was when he fought Ali. Frazier also had vision problems that plagued him through a lot during his later career.

As I said, I cannot imagine another outcome but it was definitely not the same Frazier we seen previous to and during the first Ali fight.
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#10
Old 09-23-2014, 10:15 AM
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I don't know why people refuse to acknowledge Foreman's illegal tactics that TS pointed out. It's not like he said that Frazier would have won if it wasn't for the pushing tactics of Foreman.

It's a fact, pushing on the shoulder is simply not allowed in Boxing, especially when it is done to create space for punches. I know a lot of fighters have used dirty tactics, but in this case it was a MASSIVE factor in the outcome of the fight.
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