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#11
Old 05-25-2010, 09:30 AM
The Noose
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Originally Posted by ILLuminato View Post
My problem with opinionated Atheists is....if you think God doesn't exist so much, why talk about it? Why not leave it alone?
.
The world is dominated by religion.

If hundreds of millions of people believed in something which had a big impact on the entire world, and had potential negative outcomes, u should feel a duty to speak out.

Especially when many people have been indoctrinated at such a young age and taught to never question their beliefs.
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#12
Old 05-25-2010, 09:36 AM
The Noose
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Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc1496 View Post

What I laugh about when it comes to Atheists is, they are all for spirituality, self healing, meditation or anything that empowers the body with the mind.

Studies have shown time and time again that people of faith live longer, are healthier and even make a better living. Now for the sake of this argument I will say that God doesn't exist and is a figment of someone's mind a long time ago but if he/she/it helps people deal with life, live longer, have more discipline, keep a family together etc.....Then whats the difference between any of those methods I mentioned before to help yourself with?
The main difference is that fact u have already pointed out. That many religions teach u must spread the word.
That there is only one truth, and if u dont believe in it u will be punished.
That is part of the dogma.
That people who have religious dogma are not open to reason and rationale, and their beliefs can be very dangerous.

Meditation and some form of mind over matter self healing shares non of the potentially dangerous aspects of religious dogma.

For atheists, meditation is based more in psychological relaxation techniques than a spiritual faith.
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#13
Old 05-25-2010, 09:48 AM
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Didn't ya know? Live-stock needs to be indoctrinated.
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#14
Old 05-25-2010, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
The main difference is that fact u have already pointed out. That many religions teach u must spread the word.
That there is only one truth, and if u dont believe in it u will be punished.
That is part of the dogma.
That people who have religious dogma are not open to reason and rationale, and their beliefs can be very dangerous.

Meditation and some form of mind over matter self healing shares non of the potentially dangerous aspects of religious dogma.

For atheists, meditation is based more in psychological relaxation techniques than a spiritual faith.
Says who?? HAHAHA

First off, if you are referring to hell, what do you care if you are an Atheist? It would be like me threatening you with the boogie monster..

Second, if you are referring to religious fanatics that do something that is out of the teachings of the religion, you can't hold the theology of some religion culpable for the actions of some lunatic.

It's the same **** man, just different thought processes.

The "dangers" you are talking about don't exist in Christianity, well not true Christianity. Again, the actions of people in the name of God, is something very different than what the scriptures teach.

You will always find people who are dangerous and it has nothing to do with religion. I mean how many cult deaths have existed that weren't related to the Abrahamic religions? Mass suicides and killings in the name of some teachings of a lunatic.

For the most part, Christians around the world are peaceful people, not engaging in violence even when their beliefs are completely and utterly disrespected. Christ teaches non violence at ALL COSTS.

Which is something that has been very difficult for me to accept I must admit...well that and women, those are my two weaknesses.
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#15
Old 05-25-2010, 12:10 PM
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#1 - One of the basic tenants of the major religions, well Christianity and Islam specifically is to "spread the word". Meaning you are to share what you believe with others. I think most Atheist take that as someone shoving their beliefs down your throat
That's because it is shoving your beliefs down my throat. I'm not buying your silly superstition so get off my lawn. To be fair I don't have much of a problem dealing with the door to door people. It's the screaming mentally ill ones (or they would be classified as mentally ill if their ridiculous delusions weren't shared to some degree by a large section of society) who call passing schoolgirls "whores" and threaten all sorts of nonsense to ill equipped people that bug me.

Quote:
What I laugh about when it comes to Atheists is, they are all for spirituality, self healing, meditation or anything that empowers the body with the mind.
"Sprituality"? What a bunch of horse****. I can appreciate the sublime but I don't have to dress it up in fancy clothes to do so. As Carl Sagan said: Can't we just appreciate the beauty of the garden without looking for fairies at the bottom? I think you've mixed up atheism for hippy dippy new age witchy bull-****.

I'm not entirely sure why an appreciation for your own body and mind is consider worthy of criticism though.

Quote:
Studies have shown time and time again that people of faith live longer, are healthier and even make a better living.
[citation needed]

Quote:
Says who?? HAHAHA
Who says you go to hell for not believing? Are you honestly asking that? There was a Jewish carpenter about two millenia ago said something along those lines.

I don't expect christians to know their own holy texts. They're complicated, hard to read and don't have lots of pictures. But if you really don't know anyone who said you had to believe or be punished then I suggest you stop going to church because you obviously only go there to sleep. Stay at home, you'll be more comfortable.

Quote:
First off, if you are referring to hell, what do you care if you are an Atheist? It would be like me threatening you with the boogie monster..
Which is why threats of hell work on children. And if those threats are made diligently and frequently enough to a child it takes a hell of a lot to shake them off. Sure you threaten an adult with the bogeyman they'll laugh. You tell a child there's an ogre in their closet and they'll be terrified. That's how religion works.

Quote:
For the most part, people around the world are peaceful people, not engaging in violence even when their beliefs are completely and utterly disrespected.
I fixed it for you.
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#16
Old 05-25-2010, 01:12 PM
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That's because it is shoving your beliefs down my throat. I'm not buying your silly superstition so get off my lawn. To be fair I don't have much of a problem dealing with the door to door people. It's the screaming mentally ill ones (or they would be classified as mentally ill if their ridiculous delusions weren't shared to some degree by a large section of society) who call passing schoolgirls "whores" and threaten all sorts of nonsense to ill equipped people that bug me.
Really? So you feel the same way about someone coming to your door and selling you some product? Then you cite the extreme, you just don't understand the difference between extremists and normal human beings. You love to take the actions of the few and have them represent the many.


Quote:
"Sprituality"? What a bunch of horse****. I can appreciate the sublime but I don't have to dress it up in fancy clothes to do so. As Carl Sagan said: Can't we just appreciate the beauty of the garden without looking for fairies at the bottom? I think you've mixed up atheism for hippy dippy new age witchy bull-****.
I have a very good friend who is an Atheist and she believes in all of that stuff. Holistic medicine, meditation, mind over body stuff basically. Same **** different way to go about it.


Quote:
[citation needed]
http://longevity.about.com/od/longev...igion_life.htm

There's many more.


Quote:
Who says you go to hell for not believing? Are you honestly asking that? There was a Jewish carpenter about two millenia ago said something along those lines.

I don't expect christians to know their own holy texts. They're complicated, hard to read and don't have lots of pictures. But if you really don't know anyone who said you had to believe or be punished then I suggest you stop going to church because you obviously only go there to sleep. Stay at home, you'll be more comfortable.
Did you read my post? Damn Squeally you are becoming senile. I said "Says who" as to the person referring to the "threats" coming from the religious. Who cares if Jesus said you are going to hell is my point, IF GOD DOESN'T EXIST!!!! LOL Are you scared if I tell you the boogie man is coming to get you? Your the smartest dumb person here......


Quote:
Which is why threats of hell work on children. And if those threats are made diligently and frequently enough to a child it takes a hell of a lot to shake them off. Sure you threaten an adult with the bogeyman they'll laugh. You tell a child there's an ogre in their closet and they'll be terrified. That's how religion works
.

So now you are claiming religion works because of fear and fear alone? I guess it's easy to throw out everything else it teaches you, how to be a good person, not to lie, steal, cheat, kill, etc.....

It's convenient how you leave those things out. Plus we aren't talking about children, thats another story for another day. More and more people everyday are turning away from religion, so the fear you speak of isn't working very well is it?
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#17
Old 05-25-2010, 02:58 PM
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Really? So you feel the same way about someone coming to your door and selling you some product?
Yes, I find it inconvenient and intrusive. But I treat them all the same: I don't buy anything from anybody who shows up at my door or anyone who calls me out of the blue. It doesn't matter whether it's material goods of hocus pocus.

Quote:
I have a very good friend who is an Atheist and she believes in all of that stuff. Holistic medicine, meditation, mind over body stuff basically. Same **** different way to go about it.


Holistic medicine is another word for snake oil.

I thought you said "studies" not "about dot com articles". Did you bother following the links? There are no studies at the end.

Citation STILL needed.

Quote:
Did you read my post? Damn Squeally you are becoming senile. I said "Says who" as to the person referring to the "threats" coming from the religious.
Well considering the alleged founder of your religion made those threats you shouldn't have to look too far.

Quote:
So now you are claiming religion works because of fear and fear alone? I guess it's easy to throw out everything else it teaches you, how to be a good person, not to lie, steal, cheat, kill, etc.....
But statistically speaking religious people are MORE likely to lie, to steal, to cheat and to kill, as evidenced by the rate of religious people in jail compared to their rate in the population. Furthermore divorce rates are higher among religious people. You're pretending that religion makes you better. It doesn't. And you still have the child abuse of telling children that the monsters under their bed are real.
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#18
Old 05-25-2010, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by -Blackout- View Post
Arraamis, these are all very good points. It's similar to the question I asked not long ago. I find it naive and ignorent that so called believers and some Atheists for that matter choose to put their name to something or disregard something in which they do not fully understand.

It's no longer the 15th century people should educate themself if they say they're a part of something. This being a boxing site, it's as if I called myself a devoted hardcore Ali fan even though all I knew of him is what someone, somewhere told me.
Not good enough.

You give not only yourself, but the very religion you support a bad name if you don't know the text you're trying to debate. Hypocrites in my eyes.

We owe ourself to atleast study these things IF we find atheism or religion an important part of our life. Also I would add that religous people should be familiar with science and atheism and look at it with some objectivity. How can you disregard it otherwise?

We're all trying to find answers but Personal opinions about something you really know nothing about will gain you nothing.
And that's the main theme I was expressing ... If it is the mission of certain religions to spread the faith, then there should be a thorough training period before one is allowed to do so.

To allow newly converted, or the ignorant to represent a religious faith is ludicrous. How can a so-called Christian {As an example} approach someone with the specter of fear as their only tool of recruitment.

And this is the case among so-called Christians - Their only tool is FEAR. And if you don't respect their interpretation of what would happen to you when you die then you are lost.

FEAR has never and won't ever produce a true believer ... "The person is acting like he believes because he is afraid of what would happen to him in the after life {Burning in Hell}.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoame View Post
When faced with a skeptic, a *religious debate* turns into a never ending disscution that leads absolutely nowhere. Regardless of how knowledgeable one is of his religion's history, dogma and so on everything halts at the point of faith.

As even Squeal said some time ago in other words, religion requires that big compromise of believing the words of a prophet with little to no proof. In the end people can discuss all they want but atheists will always want the proof and the men of faith won't need it.

I always looked at religion as a way to progress individualy, I couldn't care less what other people's belief system is or if they don't have one. As long as they don't force it upon me.

Here in, lies the problem .... the notion that religion is the answer and solution even if there doesn't exist, a perceived or real problem. For someone to assume that I'm a lost soul, simply because I'm not a member of their sect is not only, unfounded, but incredibly presumptuous. And in many cases, that proud display of ignorance is exacerbated by also, assuming their religion is the only way to achieve salvation {If there is such a thing}.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLuminato View Post
My problem with opinionated Atheists is....if you think God doesn't exist so much, why talk about it? Why not leave it alone?

I mean, if I walked onto an alien planet which worshipped like, an invisible XM Radio satellite, but I think it's not there, I won't go around saying, ITS NOT THERE. Not only because I would have better things to do, but it would create a challenged side more passionately convicted in belief. As long as atheism exists, passionate religious will too.
This occurs because of the lack of knowledge displayed by many who claim religion. Let me explain .... As I stated most Atheists I've met, do their homework and when they are confronted by the religious who have NOT done any homework, yet passionately defend that which they do not know or understand ... then that seems totally and completely illogical and ridiculous. And that propels the Atheists to expose the complete silliness being displayed.

If there were more of the religious who were well studied, then that, in and of itself would quite many Atheists. Because the religious would be in the position to completely rationalize their belief system and justify their participation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Venoame View Post
People can use logic to debate society and human related teachings of a certain religion but logic falls flat in an atempt to prove the existence of a superior being and its involvment on Earth, especially one conected to specific dogmas.

That's where human ego comes to play and people start to offend and get offended. IMO logic isn't all that it's made out to be, it's a process of trial and error perfected by us during the course of our existence. It's supposed to be full proof but if we go out of the box and consider our perception a tad limited, even the most absurd idea can have a small percentage of truth to it.
When that happens ... neither are ready to properly discuss the topic at hand. I've had many discussions with very knowledgeable people {Religious and Atheists} and the discussion never came close to point of tantrums or insults etc ....

But, whenever you attempt to deflect with knowledge, the advances of an unprepared, ignorant religious person - Then you expose the gaps in their understanding, the gaps in their research, the gaps in their conviction and dedication. And no likes to be exposed "On the spot" as being a fool, so the tantrums and fits commence immediately.

Last edited by arraamis; 05-25-2010 at 05:43 PM..
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