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#31
Old 11-14-2012, 01:59 AM
notrecondite
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Okay... chew on this: lol

1-Ali
2-Ali
3-Ali
4-Frazier
5-Ali
6-Ali
7-Ali
8-Frazier
9-Ali (had Frazier going, and hard to see how Ali could lose the fight at this point using round by round judging)
10-Even
11-Frazier
12-Frazier
13-Even
14-Ali
15-Frazier

Before you rail on me, probably at least one judge saw it my way in each of the rounds. Ali owned the first nine rounds, and Frazier owned the last eight. Round by round scoring, Ali wins easy. Now, forget about judging, who looked like they won... Frazier! lol Well, not so much how his face looked, remember that picture of his face? "Battered face of a winner" Ali beat the crap out of Frazier. Frazier took a brutal beating. Hard punches in bunches. Ali really hammered him. Frazier was just such a tough SOB, and he was so psyched for Ali... everyone was. Everyone fought the fight of their lives against Ali. Other things to consider... Ali looked worse many times. And, did not put that kind of hurt on the opponents he beat. The Jones fight was much closer, IMO. I would have had no problem with that fight being judged against Ali. No wonder everyone thought Liston would kill him... he did not look good against Jones at all. Ali was a giant killer, but smaller faster guys gave him trouble. And, especially those not easily discouraged, and Frazier was definitely not easliy discouraged. Frazier was fast, had lots of head movement and had a powerful left hook... and supreme determination and again totally psyched for Ali. All of this was nothing new in Ali's career, but usually he looked good enough in the final couple of rounds to get the decision. If Ali hadn't been dropped in the 15th, and had a decent round, I just can't see how he lost. But, the judges show that they would have had him the loser anyway. But, I don't think they would have turned those cards in. If Ali had had a good 15th round like he had so many times before, they would have had to give it to him. He really just beat the stuffing out of Frazier for at least 8 rounds. And, Frazier =never= looked the same after that fight. Lucky for him he never fought Norton, Shavers, or Holmes after that. Ali did, beating all but Holmes, he was just way too old and gone by then.

So it definitely looked to me like Frazier won... but Frazier is the guy that really took the beatdown. Using a round by round judging system, Ali won 8-5-2. Of course I might be a little biased. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxingbuff View Post
I have watched this fight over 100 times! I have scored it different almost everytime.I have scoed it 10-5 Frazier and 7-7-1,and anywhere in between.

I watched the fight again last night.....

1-Ali
2-Ali
3-Even
4-Ali
5-Ali.....Frazier gave that round away.
6-Frazier
7-Frazier
8-Frazier
9-Ali......Ali hurt Frazier,and had him in trouble
10-Frazier
11-Frazier....Frazier hurt Ali badly,and almost knocked him out.
12-Frazier
13-Even
14-Ali
15-Frazier knocks Ali down,and then hurts him again and again.

7-6-2-Frazier....But on points Frazier wins clearly by 3 points.

Please score the fight by rounds.

Thank You
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#32
Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 AM
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Had Frazier up by 2.
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#33
Old 11-14-2012, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notrecondite View Post
Okay... chew on this: lol

1-Ali
2-Ali
3-Ali
4-Frazier
5-Ali
6-Ali
7-Ali
8-Frazier
9-Ali (had Frazier going, and hard to see how Ali could lose the fight at this point using round by round judging)
10-Even
11-Frazier
12-Frazier
13-Even
14-Ali
15-Frazier

Before you rail on me, probably at least one judge saw it my way in each of the rounds. Ali owned the first nine rounds, and Frazier owned the last eight. Round by round scoring, Ali wins easy. Now, forget about judging, who looked like they won... Frazier! lol Well, not so much how his face looked, remember that picture of his face? "Battered face of a winner" Ali beat the crap out of Frazier. Frazier took a brutal beating. Hard punches in bunches. Ali really hammered him. Frazier was just such a tough SOB, and he was so psyched for Ali... everyone was. Everyone fought the fight of their lives against Ali. Other things to consider... Ali looked worse many times. And, did not put that kind of hurt on the opponents he beat. The Jones fight was much closer, IMO. I would have had no problem with that fight being judged against Ali. No wonder everyone thought Liston would kill him... he did not look good against Jones at all. Ali was a giant killer, but smaller faster guys gave him trouble. And, especially those not easily discouraged, and Frazier was definitely not easliy discouraged. Frazier was fast, had lots of head movement and had a powerful left hook... and supreme determination and again totally psyched for Ali. All of this was nothing new in Ali's career, but usually he looked good enough in the final couple of rounds to get the decision. If Ali hadn't been dropped in the 15th, and had a decent round, I just can't see how he lost. But, the judges show that they would have had him the loser anyway. But, I don't think they would have turned those cards in. If Ali had had a good 15th round like he had so many times before, they would have had to give it to him. He really just beat the stuffing out of Frazier for at least 8 rounds. And, Frazier =never= looked the same after that fight. Lucky for him he never fought Norton, Shavers, or Holmes after that. Ali did, beating all but Holmes, he was just way too old and gone by then.

So it definitely looked to me like Frazier won... but Frazier is the guy that really took the beatdown. Using a round by round judging system, Ali won 8-5-2. Of course I might be a little biased. lol
very nice first post.
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#34
Old 11-15-2012, 07:54 PM
notrecondite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Horton View Post
very nice first post.
Thanks! But that makes us 16,046 to 2 at this point. I think you won this round by round and on points. lol
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#35
Old 11-18-2012, 02:01 PM
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one of the best fights ever no doubed
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#36
Old 11-18-2013, 12:41 AM
notrecondite
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One other reason you can't blame Ali for losing to Joe the first fight... Joe's head movement. Non stop side to side with some up and down mixed in. Ali was so good against so many because of a straight quick punch. Shortest line between two points, you know? With Frazier it was much more of a challenge to hit him squarely with a straight punch. So oftentimes he threw a babyhook/cross type of punch in order to have the arc of the punch going in the direction of the head movement and make more contacts per punch. Problem was it wasn't Ali's punch and it didn't land with much force.
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#37
Old 02-04-2015, 05:17 AM
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Most objective people have a problem with the official scorecards. 11-4 is totally bogus, this was a close bout, nobody won by such a margin. While the other judge and ref disagreed on 7 out of 15 rounds (even though the they had a similar total score). I think the decision was political, Ali needed a KO to win this one.

Here's my card:
I gave rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 13 and 14 to Ali.
Rounds 6 ,7, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15 to Frazier.
A close call, but Ali steals it 8-7.
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#38
Old 02-04-2015, 08:47 AM
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Ali took the defeat why can't you? He lost he needed another good fight after Quarry & Bonavena! He was ok breathing and punching but his legs needed to be better so his lateral moves could be sharper for 15 rounds.
Joe brought the fight to him and forced the action at his pace not Ali's.
Joe won and desrved it!
Ray.



..there is a copy of that night on film in black & white with no commentary but a mic about 12 feet in the air capturing the sounds during the fight.
It's the BEST way to watch any fight, who needs Lampley's or Kellerman talking over the action that threy have no clue of!!!!
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#39
Old 02-04-2015, 09:14 AM
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"Ali took the defeat why can't you?"

What choice did he have? lol
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#40
Old 02-04-2015, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrdorah View Post
Most objective people have a problem with the official scorecards. 11-4 is totally bogus, this was a close bout, nobody won by such a margin. While the other judge and ref disagreed on 7 out of 15 rounds (even though the they had a similar total score). I think the decision was political, Ali needed a KO to win this one.

Here's my card:
I gave rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 13 and 14 to Ali.
Rounds 6 ,7, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 15 to Frazier.
A close call, but Ali steals it 8-7.
I don't know how anyone could have given round 13 to Ali. And if they had two point rounds then, Frazier would have scored extra in the 11th and 15th. Clear win for Joe.
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