H1N1 Vaccination Conspiracy ??

[squealpiggy]

Originally Posted by nailzfan

Yeah vaccines suck! I wish polio was still around. That's a lovely disease.

I wish measles was a major source of childhood death and disability and that mumps still routinely caused infertility, because those things are fucking wicked.

[RainMatic]

Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Because the more bizarre and unlikely the conspiracy the less evidence its advocates seem to possess. Vaccines as genocide? AIDS as genocide? Is the evil world government REALLY that inept?

Yeah but as in the case of a conspiracy, the conspiring is done by (for lack of a better term) 'the government' so the only 100% hard evidence you could have is the admission of the conspiritors. Or what would you consider good enough evidence?

[squealpiggy]

Originally Posted by RainMatic

Yeah but as in the case of a conspiracy, the conspiring is done by (for lack of a better term) 'the government' so the only 100% hard evidence you could have is the admission of the conspiritors. Or what would you consider good enough evidence?

Any evidence at all would be a good start. You know, like evidence of death rates being dramatically higher than expected (they aren't), or independent scientific study indicating dangers hiterto unheralded (there are none) or the leaking of some sort of documents attesting to it (none exist).

It would take something fairly extraordinary, but it seems you already have to be convinced that the government (or whomever) is up to no good before any of these crackpot theories are worth considering.

[arraamis]

This statement isn't directed to either RainMatic or squealpiggy ....

But, I listed documented occurrences {1931 - 1997} where unauthorized human experimentation was conducted within the US. Many, if not all, sanctioned by the US Govt. And, I didn't even attempt to document the use of depleted uranium in Iraq .... where the medical side effects are still being collected.

Why is it soo unrealistic, unusual and implausible that unauthorized human experimentation isn't still being conducted or considered. Overpopulation, whether realized by those here or not, is a major economic problem for every nation on earth. The masses are consuming too many resources and producing to little in return. Which makes the masses a liability to any nation seeking longevity.

We live in a world and society severely dependent on diminishing resources. Its not the first time a Govt. adopted or was tempted to adopt the philosophy of a manageable society. And the only way to have a manageable society is to reduce its size to include the productive assets, while eliminating the unproductive liabilities.

Hypothetical question: Now, if there was a plan to save and reserve the remaining resources for the elite to consume .... do you believe for one millisecond, they would make that knowledge public????

To ignore the possibility is to also, ignore the probability - And when you do both, you welcome the occurrence.

[RainMatic]

Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Any evidence at all would be a good start. You know, like evidence of death rates being dramatically higher than expected (they aren't), or independent scientific study indicating dangers hiterto unheralded (there are none) or the leaking of some sort of documents attesting to it (none exist).

It would take something fairly extraordinary, but it seems you already have to be convinced that the government (or whomever) is up to no good before any of these crackpot theories are worth considering.

(yeah bang on guy above me)ait

Death rates , those who think that it a conspiracy think the vaccine is designed to bring down the immune system as a subtle way of killing people, you really excpect people to jus start dying strait off, it wouldnt go far. I see what your saying about independent scientific study, its a bit early and if there was one and it proved the conspiracy right, how far do you think it would get. A few governments have suggested that the vaccines wernt really as amazin as they first made them sound. "The church gets the mind and science gets the body", mainstream science is watered down to ****. The point im making is, looking for evidence in the manner you seem to want to find it , isnt really going to be so fruitfull. Too much left brain action, im sure you were sharing JFK videos on the conspiracy side of things. Whats the difference between that and this, apart from its been long enough that its seeped into popular culture and generally accepted it was a set up, how much evidence?.

[Hi-Dro]

sounds like one to me

i d idnt get it **** that

[squealpiggy]

Originally Posted by RainMatic

(yeah bang on guy above me)ait

Death rates , those who think that it a conspiracy think the vaccine is designed to bring down the immune system as a subtle way of killing people, you really excpect people to jus start dying strait off, it wouldnt go far.

Death rates , those who think that it a conspiracy think the vaccine is designed to bring down the immune system as a subtle way of killing people, you really excpect people to jus start dying strait off, it wouldnt go far. [/quote]

So your theory is that you vaccinate hundreds of millions of people over ten generations and show an astonishing drop in the rates of infection of some extremely lethal and virulent diseases (including some of the major killers of all time like polio and smallpox) in order to reduce the population in the future?

Can you see the flaw in your reasoning there?

I see what your saying about independent scientific study, its a bit early and if there was one and it proved the conspiracy right, how far do you think it would get.

Vaccinations have been widespread for over a century (corresponding naturally to a dramatic fall in mortality and morbidity as a result of certain deadly viruses). What do you mean it's too early? Or is it just the H1N1 vaccine that's your concern? Sure, the H1N1 vaccine is far newer than those smallpox and polio vaccines, with only a couple of hundred million immunized patients spanning just a few decades that the flu virus has been available.

You just don't know what you're talking about really do you?

A few governments have suggested that the vaccines wernt really as amazin as they first made them sound.

Do you know what an iron lung is for? It's to keep the crippled body of a polio victim breathing until the disease leaves it and then the victim has only lifelong debilitating handicap to contend with instead of death. They don't use iron lungs any more. Why? Because of vaccines.

That's pretty fucking amazing.

"The church gets the mind and science gets the body", mainstream science is watered down to ****.

But you don't know anything about mainstream science! Watered down? What does that even mean?

The point im making is, looking for evidence in the manner you seem to want to find it , isnt really going to be so fruitfull. Too much left brain action,

What's worse than a conspiracy nutcase? A conspiracy nutcase who watches Oprah.

im sure you were sharing JFK videos on the conspiracy side of things. Whats the difference between that and this, apart from its been long enough that its seeped into popular culture and generally accepted it was a set up, how much evidence?.

On no evidence whatsoever, which is why it's actually not "generally accepted" that it was a "set up" any more than it is "generally accepted" that Elvis is dead!

You ask anyone on the street who shot Kennedy and almost everyone will tell you that it was Lee Harvy Oswald. Those that immediately try proferring some other explanation are the sort of people who believe that 4000 jews took a sicky on 9/11.

[squealpiggy]

To ignore the possibility is to also, ignore the probability - And when you do both, you welcome the occurrence.

No, you have it backwards. I ignore neither the possibility nor the probability. In fact I pay attention to the probability, which is why I can quite reasonably conclude that riduculous ideas are ridiculous.

[arraamis]

Originally Posted by squealpiggy

No, you have it backwards. I ignore neither the possibility nor the probability. In fact I pay attention to the probability, which is why I can quite reasonably conclude that riduculous ideas are ridiculous.

Documented occurrences\facts dating from 1931 - 1997 is ridiculous ????

In an earlier post, you stated that you needed facts - well you have yet to even comment on the facts presented. How about some more !!!!!

What more do you need???

Verifiable references ...
University documentation ...
How about Government documentation ...
Databases on Bioethics and Human Experimentation ...
Orders from President Clinton himself ....
How about from a congressman himself ....

NO PROBLEM!!!!

http://www.netti.fi/~makako/mind/radkill.htm
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~makako/mind/

LAB RATS - SHAD Project 112
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/SHAD.htm

Nonconsensual Medical Experiments on Human Beings
http://www.rbs2.com/humres.htm

Pending ... gotta fix the links

*******

Nah, only ridiculous to the uninformed and those who choose to ignore what's being placed right in front of their eyes.

[squealpiggy]

There is also a dark side to human experimentation: a long history of dangerous and harmful experiments performed on nonconsenting patients. Not only was informed consent not obtained, but the physician often fraudulently described the experimental procedure as either a diagnostic procedure or a treatment for the patient's condition, when the physician had no reason to believe that the patient might benefit from the experiment. History has shown that nonconsensual experiments are often performed on captive people in an institution, particularly people who society has regarded as "less worthy" (e.g., Jews in Nazi concentration camp, mentally retarded people in institutions, Negroes, indigent patients, ...). Such people are unable to decline or reject the experiment and few people will ever know what really happened.

This is from one of the papers you posted. This is sort of indicitive of your attitude here. I'm not suggesting that non-consensual human experiments have never happened. I'm suggesting that a conspiracy to conduct experiments using EVERYBODY as a test subject in a free and democratic country have never happened.