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#11
Old 03-03-2010, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
Hell no, not in my opinion. They're both stiff, upright, mechanical. It's effective against the kind of lard ass, unmotivated opponents they face, but it wouldn't be against a HW with a pulse. Imagine putting them in with prime Tyson? They're lumbering fighters who leave their chin hanging out to dry, it just never gets exposed (well, it did by Sanders and Brewster, in the case of Wlad). There doesn't seem to be any grace of technical ability. They both have big right hands; I like Wladimir's left hook too. I haven't seen them able to overcome any real challenge. Vitali quit with his shoulder vs Byrd. He lost to Lewis; who knows how the fight would have turned out, Lewis was clearly out of shape - career high weight? I believe - and still landed power shot after power shot in a real scrap with Vitali. Wlad's been twice smoked by non stellar opponents. Neither of them have a truly noteworthy win
Because the oppisition is weak. Can't hold that against them. They beat everyone worth beating in their time and that's what counts. being ''stiff and mechanical'' doesn't mean anything at all when we talk HOF. You can't be HOF because some people (mostly americans) think you look stiff and mechanical. WTF?
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#12
Old 03-03-2010, 09:20 AM
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They should. They beat everyone worth beating in their time.
My point is, don't put them in the HOF just because they ran over a bunch of weak opposition. Look at their styles, analyse them as fighters. I don't put a guy in the HOF because his signature win was over...who?...Sam Peter. Or because Wlad beat...er....Jameel McCline? Chris Byrd? Please.
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#13
Old 03-03-2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
My point is, don't put them in the HOF just because they ran over a bunch of weak opposition. Look at their styles, analyse them as fighters. I don't put a guy in the HOF because his signature win was over...who?...Sam Peter. Or because Wlad beat...er....Jameel McCline? Chris Byrd? Please.
Answer my question, why did Tyson get KOed against Buster Douglas? Oh, let me guess, he was past his prime already, right? Who did Tyson beat?
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#14
Old 03-03-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
My point is, don't put them in the HOF just because they ran over a bunch of weak opposition. Look at their styles, analyse them as fighters. I don't put a guy in the HOF because his signature win was over...who?...Sam Peter. Or because Wlad beat...er....Jameel McCline? Chris Byrd? Please.
You're judged by who you beat in the era you fight in. Both Klitschko's beat everyone even worth mentioning. Of course that makes them a HOF. You can't punish them for not being able to fight top opposition like that of the golden era of HW.
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#15
Old 03-03-2010, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
My point is, don't put them in the HOF just because they ran over a bunch of weak opposition. Look at their styles, analyse them as fighters. I don't put a guy in the HOF because his signature win was over...who?...Sam Peter. Or because Wlad beat...er....Jameel McCline? Chris Byrd? Please.
I don't think the opposition is any better or worse than it was During Tyson's time.

The whole "weak opposition" excuse is a really tired one and based on what? The Kiltschkos being dominant?

In the late 80's-early 90's Arreola would be a contender level HW just like he is now and maybe even could have won a vacant strap if Sheldon was able to.

Is it possible that there are good fighters who just seem to be not very good only because the K-bros are there? How would the HW division seem if they weren't fighting?

Last edited by Spray_resistant; 03-03-2010 at 09:29 AM.
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#16
Old 03-03-2010, 09:28 AM
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Answer my question, why did Tyson get KOed against Buster Douglas? Oh, let me guess, he was past his prime already, right? Who did Tyson beat?
He was still in his prime years as an athlete, but you have to look at the conditions of the bout.

According to Tyson's trainers, his workouts prior to the Douglas fight had been pathetically lackadaisical. I think it was said on HBO's Legendary Nights ep that Tyson was knocked down in sparring. Tyson admitted partying hard in Japan in the week before the fight; he simply didn't take Buster seriously. And you could tell right from the opening bell. Plus, of course, Buster performed magically and used all his physical advantages to punish an unprepared Mike.
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#17
Old 03-03-2010, 09:29 AM
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I don't think the opposition is any better or worse than it was During Tyson's time.

The whole "weak opposition" excuse is a really tired one and based on what? The Kiltschkos being dominant?

In the late 80's-early 90's Arreola would be a contender level HW just like he is now and maybe even could have won a vacant strap is Sheldon was able to.

Is it possible that there are good fighters who just seem to be not very good only because the K-bros are there? How would the HW division seem if they weren't fighting?
Exactly! What evidence do they have to say that the current HWs are weak? Because they look bad against the Klitschkos? Shouldn't that mean that the Klitschkos are great because they beat their competition easily? Seriously, it's sad when people get ripped on for their losses, but then fan favourites like Tyson (who is a great fighter too) have excuses made up for everyone of their losses.

Do you think that if eastern europeans continue dominating (like it appears so far, based on the HW prospects we have right now), the Klitschkos will, with time, get more respect, or will the HW division just be called **** from here onwards?
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#18
Old 03-03-2010, 09:31 AM
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He was still in his prime years as an athlete, but you have to look at the conditions of the bout.

According to Tyson's trainers, his workouts prior to the Douglas fight had been pathetically lackadaisical. I think it was said on HBO's Legendary Nights ep that Tyson was knocked down in sparring. Tyson admitted partying hard in Japan in the week before the fight; he simply didn't take Buster seriously. And you could tell right from the opening bell. Plus, of course, Buster performed magically and used all his physical advantages to punish an unprepared Mike.

Legit sources right there, I mean why would Tyson's trainers make excuses for him right?

Just before the guy from Ring Magazine that has the section Dougie's mailbag was saying that Klitschko was getting beat up in sparring and that Arreola could be getting him at the right time, we all know what happened.

The truth is, fan favourites get excuses made for their losses, while not so popular fighters get ripped on for their losses, clear double standards. Manny Pacquiao also has losses against not stellar competition early in his career but still that is forgiven because he has went on to accomplish great things, why does Wlad still get criticized by fights that happened years ago when he has been dominating the HWs for years?

Last edited by Pirao; 03-03-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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#19
Old 03-03-2010, 09:36 AM
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What evidence do they have to say that the current HWs are weak? Because they look bad against the Klitschkos? Shouldn't that mean that the Klitschkos are great because they beat their competition easily?
HAHA.

Yeah, the Klitschkos are so great because of the way they beat terrible HWs. What evidence do we have that the current HWs are weak? We don't need evidence, we have VISION. Any one with eyes can see that guys like Arreola, Danny Williams, Kirk Johnson, Chris Byrd, Kevin Johnson, Lamon Brewster etc. aren't great HWs. Any one with eyes. No one is arguing that Tyson's era is great, the late 80s was poor also, but it was the manner of Tyson's victory and his obvious ability. You look at some of Tyson's best wins and compare them with the Klitschkos best. And you can tell who is the true great. Tyson had speed, power, defence, he covered up well, bobbed and weaved, threw terrific combintions, had a great chin. Both Klitschkos throw powerful right hands, Vitali doesn't really have a jab, Wladimir throws a good left hook. But the are unexciting, they don't throw punches properly (often winging amatuerishly, they don't punch straight out from the shoulder like the traditional trombone technique; if you'd boxed you'd kno what I mean; Wlad does this more so than Vitali. Wlad is a better fighter, but still not HOF), they leave their chins out, they have horribly clumsy styles and they've beat a bunch of nobodies and no-hopers. Fact.
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#20
Old 03-03-2010, 09:38 AM
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What can they do?
Hop in the Delorean with Doc & Marty and go back to the 70's?
They are beating EVERYONE around them and doing it easily,Of course they will be HOF.
If Lennox Lewis was around now and dominating the Arreolas,Chagaevs,Johnsons would people say hes not going HOF?
Of course not.
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