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#201
Old 01-26-2010, 06:57 AM
Syf
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Originally Posted by Bob Anomaly View Post
Gods definition seems a patchwork of things we cannot grasp. And to me thats a pointless exercise in personifying the physical universe.
*shrug* Seems to make just about as much sense as anything else. In a world of uncertainty, eventually one has to choose what they are going to believe, because no system can even come close to explaining. Science explains a good bit by our standards, but cannot even touch some of the greater mysteries. Though, I'm sure it wants to.

And as I outlined before, it is very useful, but also blind to those concepts which can't be nailed to the wall. Religion, on the other hand, has its shortcomings as well. People will go on crusades (literally and metaphorically) and cause great hurt to others because they want to change a belief. But those that do that I don't view as truly Godly men. They are pretenders, unsure in their faith, so driven to spread it by the flame and sword. Or gun, if you like.

I acknowledge that religion has its faults...but then, so does science. I tire sometimes of this victim mentality some atheists try to foist off on me. Like I have oppressed them somehow, or not listened to what they had to say.

Quote:
Im not sure if i have a foundation of life.
But i certainly dont believe there is one truth or one answer. I understand people can see the same thing from different angles. I just dont agree that there is enough for a solid belief in a God.
Like i said, i understand how effective faith can be and how people achieve it without delving into debates about gods existence.
Ive found that often people with the most sturdy faith are those which dont really examine it.
Like a scientist once said, that to quantify a religious experience is to obliterate it.
Well I agree with your first, and to your last, there is not enough for solid belief in anything, without faith. Even science uses faith. Their experiments, hypotheses, and what not. Who's to say the laws of nature just won't change one day? We assume it. When we go to bed at night, we assume the Sun will rise to greet us in the morning. But its all based on faith that what happened before, will happen again.

So I'm all for skepticism, but if that same skepticism becomes more cynical in nature, which happens often, then I have seen societal values plummet as a result.

To quantify a religious experience is to obliterate it..I like that. Perhaps that's why religion doesn't usually fare well under a microscope, hmm?
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#202
Old 01-26-2010, 07:04 AM
Syf
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Originally Posted by Vladimir303 View Post
I'd respect guys like yours opinion or better yet faith, more if you guys believed in god without believing in afterlife.

that self-centered, trying to make yourself seem more important than you really are ideology, that you get to live beyond the 60+ somewhat years here on earth, while conveniently telling yourself that the weaker, less intelligent animals on this planet are just here for our amusement and as food...with no souls.

It's ok if you believe there is a god, a creator and that it couldn't be that from nothing came something...just forget about internal life. You're not that imporant, this planet in the grand scheme of things couldn't be that imporant in the Universe. But because we as a race haven't encountered any aliens from another galaxy, we've made it so we have our own little heaven after earth. Where do the other possible life forms beyond earth fit into religious peoples world of afterlife?
Whoah whoah whoah. You are putting words, and beliefs, in my mouth. I never said animals don't have souls.

As for are we important? Its a paradox. I have a lot of belief that paradoxes are one of the most effective ways to look at things. I see your point about insignificance, but by the very nature of creation, each of us is a speck of sand in a sea of endless desert, and yet, at the same time, the most important as well.

Very difficult to think about. People have a tendency to either want to think one way or another...but there you have it.

Edit: Aliens? Didn't see that b4. I do not discount the possibility of aliens. In fact, I find it quite likely, given the vast reaches of space and the countless scenarios that even I can dream up, let alone an infinite entity. But, the way I see it, we have trouble enough with ourselves, adding all these other variables will just muddle things into an even bigger indecipherable mess. So it doesn't cross my mind much.

Last edited by Syf; 01-26-2010 at 07:23 AM..
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#203
Old 01-26-2010, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Syf View Post
*shrug* Seems to make just about as much sense as anything else. In a world of uncertainty, eventually one has to choose what they are going to believe, because no system can even come close to explaining. Science explains a good bit by our standards, but cannot even touch some of the greater mysteries. Though, I'm sure it wants to.
Im quite comfortable with mystery. I feel religion has always tried to fill it with an explanation which has often been dismissed as science closes the gaps in our understanding of the universe.

Quote:
I acknowledge that religion has its faults...but then, so does science. I tire sometimes of this victim mentality some atheists try to foist off on me. Like I have oppressed them somehow, or not listened to what they had to say.
Its a shame more and more atheists are becoming just like the religious preachers they oppose. Its one thing to be free to voice ur opinion and criticise religion, but they must also understand faith and realise attacking peoples beliefs only makes the divide wider.

Quote:
Well I agree with your first, and to your last, there is not enough for solid belief in anything, without faith. Even science uses faith. Their experiments, hypotheses, and what not. Who's to say the laws of nature just won't change one day? We assume it. When we go to bed at night, we assume the Sun will rise to greet us in the morning. But its all based on faith that what happened before, will happen again.
Im not sure if the faith we have in general is the same as religious faith.
We can assume the sun will rise tomorrow because it always has. There is no reason for us to think it wont.
Whereas the faith there is an afterlife or that God created the universe is a blind faith. The faith exists precisely because they are unknowns.

With prayer, the religious person will remember the hits but not the misses. If a prayer is answered they praise God. Yet if God does not help them, they see it as a sign he is either punishing them, or that it is a test of their faith.
If a disaster wipes out their family, its ok because they 'are in a better place' with God. If they survive the disaster, its a miracle.

I find it strange that people pray for such subtle signs from an all powerful God. Why not pray for people to come back from the dead? Its interesting they only pray for things they know are possible within reason. Not things that are possible for a God that makes all things possible.

Anyway. Im rambling.
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#204
Old 02-26-2010, 03:08 AM
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