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View Poll Results: Where do you rank him?
Top 1-10 - is a P4P all-time great 8 22.22%
Top 1-10 - isn't a P4P all-time great 3 8.33%
Top 10-20 - is a P4P all-time great 10 27.78%
Top 10-20 - isn't a P4P all-time great 15 41.67%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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#21
Old 01-14-2010, 04:59 PM
Tommy Dollars
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I don't think anybody could make a coherent case about Hamed being mentioned as a top 20 P4P fighter or even featherweight fighter. However, if we were talking about the most entertaining fighters of all time to watch, he'd be up there.
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#22
Old 01-14-2010, 05:21 PM
CarlosG815
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Originally Posted by Tommy Dollars View Post
I don't think anybody could make a coherent case about Hamed being mentioned as a top 20 P4P fighter or even featherweight fighter. However, if we were talking about the most entertaining fighters of all time to watch, he'd be up there.
Yeah, does anybody remember his fight on Halloween against Mccollough?
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#23
Old 01-14-2010, 07:01 PM
mickey malone
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Originally Posted by GJC View Post
Amazing to think he came out of the same gym as Herol Graham who you couldn't hit with a handful of rice.
Ingle's master plan was for him to fight the same way, but as we know, Hamed had plans of his own..
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#24
Old 01-14-2010, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..
very well put,nice too see someone presenting facts instead of just saying 'hes was over-rated and got exposed barrera' like most people seem to do on here
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#25
Old 01-14-2010, 07:31 PM
mickey malone
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Originally Posted by british_fan View Post
very well put,nice too see someone presenting facts instead of just saying 'hes was over-rated and got exposed barrera' like most people seem to do on here
I'd say that most of these lads were born in the late 80's, and are mostly Football fans..
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#26
Old 01-14-2010, 07:41 PM
The_Demon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
I'd say that most of these lads were born in the late 80's, and are mostly Football fans..
well you just described me

but i get what you mean
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#27
Old 01-14-2010, 07:49 PM
Edward Hitler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0 who once beat Floyd jr 1 out of 3 times in the Olympic trials

Last edited by H.G.H; 01-14-2010 at 07:52 PM.
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#28
Old 01-14-2010, 08:14 PM
CarlosG815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..
Beating people with good records is bull****. To be great, you have to beat greats.

Naseem beat good fighters, but I would assume you agree with me when I say that Barrera was the first great boxer Naseem ever faced, and we saw what happened when a great fighter stepped in with a boxer with a great boxing record. And had he fought Morales at any point in his career it would have been much worse for Hamed. He'd have been hit more in that fight than he had in his entire career.

If you don't fight greats, you don't make the list.

Naseem will go down as one of boxing's great showmen who had a pretty record, dodged all but one top contender and got dismantled when he did.
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#29
Old 01-14-2010, 10:35 PM
mickey malone
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1000 posts right around the bend...congrats! - JAB5239 For bringing up Schmeling's classy actions! - poet682006 Nothing But Respect For You Mate - 0Rooster4Life0 To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage For fighting the Wanker Snopkins - HaglerSteelChin 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
Beating people with good records is bull****. To be great, you have to beat greats.

Naseem beat good fighters, but I would assume you agree with me when I say that Barrera was the first great boxer Naseem ever faced, and we saw what happened when a great fighter stepped in with a boxer with a great boxing record. And had he fought Morales at any point in his career it would have been much worse for Hamed. He'd have been hit more in that fight than he had in his entire career.

If you don't fight greats, you don't make the list.

Naseem will go down as one of boxing's great showmen who had a pretty record, dodged all but one top contender and got dismantled when he did.
I agree with all of what you're saying, but what i'm trying to put across, is the Barrera fight would have taken a completely different path had he not left the Ingle camp to be trained by the incompitent Oscar Saurez..
Brendan Ingle discovered Hamed while he was waiting in traffic adjacent to a school playground, when he noticed this tiny little Kid steaming into 4 or 5 bigger kids that were attempting to bully him.. Hamed was 7 years old at the time, and so impressed was Ingle, he went in to see the headmaster, who in turn introduced him to Hameds parents, and the story began..
What i'm trying to say, is that Brendon Ingle, who i defy anyone to say is'nt a **** hot trainer, was Hamed's 'Boxing Godfather' who nurtured his every move nearly every day for 20 years..
I followed his career, and he was the first fighter i saw for the first time as an amateur, and instantly knew i was looking at a future world champion.. The only other time that happened was with David Haye..
Due to my studies, i could easily tell that the Hamed who fought Barrera and Manuel Calvo was not even remotely in the same mould as the one who destroyed everyone else..
Saurez, who i don't think has been heard of since, totally changed Hamed's style.. His timing, accuracy & movement had all deserted him to the point where it was only his immense natural strength, that kept him up against Barrera..

Both Morales and Barrera will be far ahead of Hamed in the ATG lists, and righty so due to their superior dedication, but had Naz a wee bit more respect for Ingle, I remain convinced he could have beaten both of them..
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#30
Old 01-15-2010, 12:31 AM
CarlosG815
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Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
I agree with all of what you're saying, but what i'm trying to put across, is the Barrera fight would have taken a completely different path had he not left the Ingle camp to be trained by the incompitent Oscar Saurez..
Brendan Ingle discovered Hamed while he was waiting in traffic adjacent to a school playground, when he noticed this tiny little Kid steaming into 4 or 5 bigger kids that were attempting to bully him.. Hamed was 7 years old at the time, and so impressed was Ingle, he went in to see the headmaster, who in turn introduced him to Hameds parents, and the story began..
What i'm trying to say, is that Brendon Ingle, who i defy anyone to say is'nt a **** hot trainer, was Hamed's 'Boxing Godfather' who nurtured his every move nearly every day for 20 years..
I followed his career, and he was the first fighter i saw for the first time as an amateur, and instantly knew i was looking at a future world champion.. The only other time that happened was with David Haye..
Due to my studies, i could easily tell that the Hamed who fought Barrera and Manuel Calvo was not even remotely in the same mould as the one who destroyed everyone else..
Saurez, who i don't think has been heard of since, totally changed Hamed's style.. His timing, accuracy & movement had all deserted him to the point where it was only his immense natural strength, that kept him up against Barrera..

Both Morales and Barrera will be far ahead of Hamed in the ATG lists, and righty so due to their superior dedication, but had Naz a wee bit more respect for Ingle, I remain convinced he could have beaten both of them..
I understand your argument because I use a similar excuse for Tyson whenever I have the best heavyweight ever argument.

However, Hamed never did anything in any of his fights at any point in his career that was really impressive. If you look at early fights, like the Andy Bloomer bout, his style was basically an unperfected version of what it was in 2002. He did terribly sloppy lunge punches, sometimes with two fists. His face was always exposed and he threw himself off balance because the only defense tactic he ever used was lunging backwards while keeping his feet planted, throwing him even more off balance. Any great boxer would see these mistakes on film, anticipate his moves and pick him apart - exactly the way Barrera did.

Again I understand your argument but if you look at all the great boxers in boxing history, you won't find any greats that fought like him. His form and style of fighting was terrible. Everybody knows the most important job for any manager with a new fighter is having the ability to know your fighter and pick smart fights for him early on. The fact that he kept his record so pretty for so long just shows that he had a wonderful manager who knew how to pick his fights for him.

He put on a hell of a show though. I gotta admit I watched all of his fights live and enjoyed every entrance.
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