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Old 01-10-2010, 06:37 PM #1
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Default How Would Lennox Lewis Do Against The ATGs In Their Primes? (No Haters Please)

In Prime Lennox Lewis Versus In Prime:

Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Harry Wills
Joe Walcott

Your thoughts Gentlemen?

Poet
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:05 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
In Prime Lennox Lewis Versus In Prime:

Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Harry Wills
Joe Walcott

Your thoughts Gentlemen?

Poet
Louis, Liston, Foreman, Tyson, and Frazier knock him out.

Ali, Holmes, and Wills decision him

Johnson and Holyfield are pick 'em fights, though I'd favor both to win on points.

Dempsey, Marciano, and Walcott get beat.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:05 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
In Prime Lennox Lewis Versus In Prime:

Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Harry Wills
Joe Walcott

Your thoughts Gentlemen?

Poet
Ali: I dont think Lennox would do well against Ali, because he has never fought anyone with the speed and movement of Ali. I say Muhammed wins a UD, but probably doesnt stop Lennox, in a rematch lewis would do a bit better and lose a close one.

Louis: Well this is a more difficult one to predict, because i think that Lewis is quick enough, and accurate enough to land a right hand on louis chin at some point, and if that happens all bets are off. I cant pick a winner though, but if i were betting id just pick that the fight doesnt go the distance.

Johnson: Jack was a very tough guy, and if he was in another era then he would have a good chance, but i think the size, strength and skills of lewis would prevail here, and sadly i actually dont see Jack making it past 10 rounds.

Dempsey: Absoloute mismatch, lewis in 5 or less, style, size, power, lewis has almost every advantage in this fight.

Holmes: This is a good fight, but i think that it would probably be a victory for holmes because I think Lewis would try to jab with him, and that would be bad news, plus in his prime holmes had a very good chin, so i say Larry by UD, but there is a chance of Lewis by ko

Liston: I think that in this one there are a few options, but the most likely thing i see is Lewis keeping the fight close, but staying ahead. late in the fight Liston would need the KO, and Im going to say that he doesnt get it. Lewis UD then.

Foreman: I actually pick Lennox Lewis in this fight. I think that George has a chance of KO of course, but I see him being peppered with the jabs, if things get messy, lewis will clinch and use his size and strength to smother foreman, who for once is the smaller man, I pick Lewis by Ko, belive it or not.

Holyfield: The same as their actual fights, slow but a little closer on the cards, I dont see what else a Holyfield a couple years younger brings, other than slightly better stamina and reflexes, and again, what difference would that make. Lewis SD

Marciano: Again, in a different era there could be a different result, but Lewis would simply use his height and size, standing back, and slamming marciano with the jab. Marciano would be forced to try and come inside to have any chance wouldnt he? and when he does, Lewis would maul him like a rag doll. Remember when lewis used to pull an opponents head down, and then smash them with an uppercut at the same time? thats the shot that ko's marciano.

Mike Tyson: There are two/three fights here, in the first Tyson stops Lewis inside 5, in the 2nd, the smarter and more tactical Lewis figures out how to keep Tyson off, with a solid jab, and smothering him when he comes inside, as long as lewis doesnt get hit, he stops Tyson late, and the same in the final of the trilogy.

Joe Frazier: I would pick Frazier to KO lewis in the first ight, but this is one of those fights where Lewis would come back in a rematch and handle frazier, so Frazier stops Lewis late in the first and then the other way round in the rematch.

Harry Wills: Sorry, i dont know enough about him to comment

Joe Walcott: I see Lewis having most of the advantages in this one, I think Lewis by KO, again i will say, if Joe was trained in modern facilities, with modern nutritioning etc he may have more of a chance
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:12 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama View Post
Louis, Liston, Foreman, Tyson, and Frazier knock him out.

Ali, Holmes, and Wills decision him

Johnson and Holyfield are pick 'em fights, though I'd favor both to win on points.

Dempsey, Marciano, and Walcott get beat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl-Hickey View Post
Ali: I dont think Lennox would do well against Ali, because he has never fought anyone with the speed and movement of Ali. I say Muhammed wins a UD, but probably doesnt stop Lennox, in a rematch lewis would do a bit better and lose a close one.

Louis: Well this is a more difficult one to predict, because i think that Lewis is quick enough, and accurate enough to land a right hand on louis chin at some point, and if that happens all bets are off. I cant pick a winner though, but if i were betting id just pick that the fight doesnt go the distance.

Johnson: Jack was a very tough guy, and if he was in another era then he would have a good chance, but i think the size, strength and skills of lewis would prevail here, and sadly i actually dont see Jack making it past 10 rounds.

Dempsey: Absoloute mismatch, lewis in 5 or less, style, size, power, lewis has almost every advantage in this fight.

Holmes: This is a good fight, but i think that it would probably be a victory for holmes because I think Lewis would try to jab with him, and that would be bad news, plus in his prime holmes had a very good chin, so i say Larry by UD, but there is a chance of Lewis by ko

Liston: I think that in this one there are a few options, but the most likely thing i see is Lewis keeping the fight close, but staying ahead. late in the fight Liston would need the KO, and Im going to say that he doesnt get it. Lewis UD then.

Foreman: I actually pick Lennox Lewis in this fight. I think that George has a chance of KO of course, but I see him being peppered with the jabs, if things get messy, lewis will clinch and use his size and strength to smother foreman, who for once is the smaller man, I pick Lewis by Ko, belive it or not.

Holyfield: The same as their actual fights, slow but a little closer on the cards, I dont see what else a Holyfield a couple years younger brings, other than slightly better stamina and reflexes, and again, what difference would that make. Lewis SD

Marciano: Again, in a different era there could be a different result, but Lewis would simply use his height and size, standing back, and slamming marciano with the jab. Marciano would be forced to try and come inside to have any chance wouldnt he? and when he does, Lewis would maul him like a rag doll. Remember when lewis used to pull an opponents head down, and then smash them with an uppercut at the same time? thats the shot that ko's marciano.

Mike Tyson: There are two/three fights here, in the first Tyson stops Lewis inside 5, in the 2nd, the smarter and more tactical Lewis figures out how to keep Tyson off, with a solid jab, and smothering him when he comes inside, as long as lewis doesnt get hit, he stops Tyson late, and the same in the final of the trilogy.

Joe Frazier: I would pick Frazier to KO lewis in the first ight, but this is one of those fights where Lewis would come back in a rematch and handle frazier, so Frazier stops Lewis late in the first and then the other way round in the rematch.

Harry Wills: Sorry, i dont know enough about him to comment

Joe Walcott: I see Lewis having most of the advantages in this one, I think Lewis by KO, again i will say, if Joe was trained in modern facilities, with modern nutritioning etc he may have more of a chance
So far so good! Resonable responses without any hating. I may not agree with all of them but they ARE reasonable.

Poet
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:42 PM #5
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Muhammad Ali - I can see Lewis giving Ali some trouble in a couple rounds but overall Ali wins a clear decision. Ali's simply too fast and has too much of a good defense to lose.

Joe Louis - This is a tricky one. Although Louis is the better puncher, Lewis has a good size advantage over him. I'm can't pick a clear outcome but I'll say this: if Louis doesn't knock him out early, Lewis would win by a late stoppage.

Jack Johnson - As good as Johnson was, I can't see him beating Lewis. The styles of their eras are much too different. I'll pick Lewis by a late stoppage.

Jack Dempsey - This is another tricky one. It can spell the word disaster for either of them. Their chins aren't considered great, and I'll take it to whoever lands the cleanest and harder shots to get the victory. I'll take a guess and say Lewis wins it.

Larry Holmes - Holmes is a great boxer and I think he would have what it takes to beat Lewis by decision. I see it being prett close but with Holmes getting the decision, in the end.

Sonny Liston - Say what you want about Liston but I think he's got what it takes to knock out Lewis. He's too heavy handed and I see his jab giving Lewis problems. Eventually, he'll get the knockout punch.

George Foreman - Foreman wins this one by knockout. Despite the Ali and Lyle fights, I think Foreman's showed a great chin throughout his career. I'll take him by a mid-round stoppage.

Evander Holyfield - Too bad these men didn't meet up in their prime. I can see it going either of them winning it by a close decision.

Rocky Marciano - As great as Marciano was, I can see Lewis winning it either by a late stoppage or a decision. Marciano just gives too much of a size advantage away and, although he's arguably the better puncher, he's not the better boxer.

Mike Tyson - This fight would be all wrong for Lewis. A young and prime Tyson was fast, slick and all too powerful. I see him stopping Lewis no further than the mid-rounds.

Joe Frazier - Although there's a big size advantage, I can see either of them winning this one. If Frazier doesn't stop him late, Lewis would.

Harry Wills - I won't give an outcome on him because I've seen only one piece of footage of him. That was around a one minute clip of him, while he was past his prime, against Paulino Uzcudun.

Jersey Joe Walcott - I can see Lewis winning this one by a late round stoppage. Lewis just simply had too much of a size advantage over him and he would eventually get to Walcott.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:33 PM #6
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Btw poet, you forgot to put wlad on the atg list!

What? What?
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:52 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Earl-Hickey View Post
Btw poet, you forgot to put wlad on the atg list!

What? What?
Except I'm not really sure what Wlad's particularly great at.....other than getting KTFO by out-of-shape journeyman pro-golfers

Seriously though, I'd put Vitali there long before I put Wlad: Vitali is clearly the better of the two.

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Old 01-11-2010, 01:11 AM #8
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Ali - Prime Ali too fast on his feet, wins a comfortable DC
Louis - Lewis KD's Louis, gets ****y, KO'd by a blistering 3 punch combo
Holmes - Larry gets KD'd but gets up to use his jab and take a SD
Foreman - 10 round version of the Lyle fight, George by KO
Johnson - Jack survives for 10 b4 getting KO'd in the 11th
Marciano - Lewis too rangey, Rock can't get inside, gets stopped on cuts 8th
Dempsey - Hurts Lewis to the body, but gets drilled by an uppercut in the 5th
Tyson - Prime Mike loses a close DC with no KD's
Frazier - Lewis fights of the back foot and closes Joe's eyes around the 11th
Walcott - Outscores Lewis until a big right bomb stretches him in the 6th
Wills - Most say Dempsey would'a beaten him, so I doubt he beats Lewis
Holyfield - 50/50 match in their primes, but Lewis shades it for me..
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:42 AM #9
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This should be a great thread if people can prevent it from turning into a shouting match. Lewis provides some really interesting match ups for fighters given his size and skill level. I think most of these fights would take quite a few paragraphs to really breakdown so I'll just give a very brief summary of why I'd pick who I would pick.

Vs. Ali: I think Ali wins fairly comfortable UD. Although Lewis has a great jab and is a good boxer I don't think his feet are quick enough for him to deal with Ali's constant circling and awkward angles. On a side note I think Prime Lewis would beat a Post-Prime Ali such as the one that fought in the Thrilla in Manilla that couldn't shuffle and move his feet very well.

Vs. Louis: I think Lewis would keep Louis at bay with his jab for a good portion of the fight but I think as the fight wore on Louis would begin to inflict quite a bit of punishment with the left hook to the body that would slow down Lewis. Eventually Lewis gets tagged by a Louis counterpunch that puts him out for the count. Still I wouldn't bet much money on this fight given that both men have excellent power and chins that have been known to give way at times.

Vs. Johnson: Lewis's size gives him the edge. Lewis uses his jab extensively to keep busy against Johnson. Lewis would struggle to land much other than his jab cleanly on Johnson but his reach keeps Johnson from mustering up much of an offense. He wins a clear but ugly UD with not many punches landed cleanly by either man. I'm afraid Johnson doesn't have the punch to really shake Lewis up either.

Vs. Dempsey: Dempsey tries to wade his way inside on Lewis but gets tattooed by jabs and right hands on his way inside. When he finally gets inside Lewis ties him up and pushes him away easily. Rinse and repeat for a few rounds and eventually a big enough punch clocks the courageous but outgunned Dempsey in the first 6 rounds.

Vs. Holmes: Lewis and Holmes put on a clinic on how to throw the jab. As good as Lewis's jab is Holmes's jab is faster and he works his angles a bit better than the slightly clumsy on his feet Lewis who gets out boxed in a competitive but clear UD. I don't think he could KO Holmes either which removes his punchers chance that he normally has against most other Heavyweights.

Vs. Liston: Very tough fight to judge. Liston and Lewis have the same reach and jabs so I'd imagine that that would be a wash. I think Lewis would effectively counterpunch Liston while Liston would try to overwhelm Lewis's attempt to turn the fight into a pure boxing match. As the fight wears on Lewis tires and Liston lands one of his left hooks cleanly on a tired Lewis and puts him to sleep for a late round KO.

Vs. Foreman: Lewis boxes Foreman's ears off and stymies Foreman's attempt to brawl in close quarters by tying him up. I think the main question would be if Foreman lands a bomb before he gets too battered by Lewis. I think this fight could go either way but I would fancy Lewis in most cases to chop Young Foreman down before the bomb lands. Also I might be in the minority here but I think Foreman may get intimidated by the bigger Lewis when he finds out he canít push him around and actually finds himself getting pushed around by a man bigger than him.

Vs. Holyfield: Just like their fights went. Lewis in a razor thin decision.

Vs. Marciano: Way too much of a size difference here for Marciano to make up for. Lewis batters around Marciano as he tries to come inside then ties him up and batters him up some more when he gets there as he ties him up and mauls him. I don't think this is a very good style match up for Rocky as I don't think he has the defensive skills to box with Lewis and is at too much of a disadvantage to try and fight inside without getting tied up and battered around. Iíll take Lewis by a wide UD or late stoppage.

Vs. Tyson: I don't see Lewis being able to move his feet well enough to keep Tyson away from him as I don't picture him being able to hit Tyson with his jab easily. Personally I think a lot of Tyson's greatness is lost due to people focusing only on his flashy knockouts but in his prime he was a very good defensive boxer who was hard to hit. Back on point, Lewis gets clocked by a Tyson left hook and KO'd before the half-way point in the fight as he never finds an effective way to keep Tyson away from him.

Vs. Frazier: Lewis establishes his jab early and rides it to a UD. He keeps Joe at bay with straight punches and when Joe finally gets inside is clinched and pushed away easily. Eventually Joe eats too many straight right hands and stiff jabs and the fight is stopped after a raging Joe Frazier's face is too bloodied to continue. I think Joe might have problems trying to land his hook on Lewis with the height disparity taking some of the steam off his punch.

Vs. Willis: I have only seen highlights of Willis fights and doubt I could make a worthwhile prediction on how the fight would turn out without watching much more film.

Vs. Walcott: Lewis outboxes the game Walcott using his jab and reach to gain a clear advantage throughout the fight. Walcott has his momentís landing some straight rights off counters but he never solves the riddle of Lewis's jab. Lewis wins a clear UD in a good action fight.

Also someone mentioned Wlad but I think Lewis would cold-clock Wlad fairly easily as he has the better jab and better counter-punching skills and I don't think his chin is nearly as brittle.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:19 AM #10
TheStoneRoses TheStoneRoses is offline
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Originally Posted by dagrtst View Post
Muhammad Ali - I can see Lewis giving Ali some trouble in a couple rounds but overall Ali wins a clear decision. Ali's simply too fast and has too much of a good defense to lose.

Joe Louis - This is a tricky one. Although Louis is the better puncher, Lewis has a good size advantage over him. I'm can't pick a clear outcome but I'll say this: if Louis doesn't knock him out early, Lewis would win by a late stoppage.

Jack Johnson - As good as Johnson was, I can't see him beating Lewis. The styles of their eras are much too different. I'll pick Lewis by a late stoppage.

Jack Dempsey - This is another tricky one. It can spell the word disaster for either of them. Their chins aren't considered great, and I'll take it to whoever lands the cleanest and harder shots to get the victory. I'll take a guess and say Lewis wins it.

Larry Holmes - Holmes is a great boxer and I think he would have what it takes to beat Lewis by decision. I see it being prett close but with Holmes getting the decision, in the end.

Sonny Liston - Say what you want about Liston but I think he's got what it takes to knock out Lewis. He's too heavy handed and I see his jab giving Lewis problems. Eventually, he'll get the knockout punch.

George Foreman - Foreman wins this one by knockout. Despite the Ali and Lyle fights, I think Foreman's showed a great chin throughout his career. I'll take him by a mid-round stoppage.

Evander Holyfield - Too bad these men didn't meet up in their prime. I can see it going either of them winning it by a close decision.

Rocky Marciano - As great as Marciano was, I can see Lewis winning it either by a late stoppage or a decision. Marciano just gives too much of a size advantage away and, although he's arguably the better puncher, he's not the better boxer.

Mike Tyson - This fight would be all wrong for Lewis. A young and prime Tyson was fast, slick and all too powerful. I see him stopping Lewis no further than the mid-rounds.

Joe Frazier - Although there's a big size advantage, I can see either of them winning this one. If Frazier doesn't stop him late, Lewis would.

Harry Wills - I won't give an outcome on him because I've seen only one piece of footage of him. That was around a one minute clip of him, while he was past his prime, against Paulino Uzcudun.

Jersey Joe Walcott - I can see Lewis winning this one by a late round stoppage. Lewis just simply had too much of a size advantage over him and he would eventually get to Walcott.
Good post mate
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