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#1
Old 12-05-2009, 05:05 PM
2501
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Default FAO: Dawson Detractos, Calzaghe Stans, Iceta and Larry X

This is a rare one and a kind LONG rant "a la" DLT from me, so I apologize for the length.

When Dawson and Boxing fans say Hopkins should give Dawson the time of day, or that Calzaghe should have fought Dawson, these dudes say, "Who has Chad fought? He's chasing after 40 year olds and is ducking Cloud/Pascal/Diaconu etc"

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry x View Post
im sorry but this is double standards and pathetic..dawson needs to cut the **** and fight some prime fighters..hell joe was 36-37 and moving up in weight...damn
They bring up Johnson by saying "Chad fought an old man, got hurt and almost lost" but some how don't realize the stupidity of their comments. as Calzaghe also fought an "OLDER man" in Hopkins and actually got knocked down and also almost lost. Hopkins wasn't on a roll when Calzaghe decided to fight him. He was 2-2 in his last 4 fights and looked HORRIBLE in his win against Wright. Then they bring up Tarver saying "Chad only wants to fight old men" but some how forget that Calzaghe chose Jones who hasn't been significant, is more past his prime than Tarver and also got KTFO by Tarver more recently than Johnson lost to Hopkins and just got LIT UP in the first round by Danny Green. Tarver was the IBF and IBO LHW champion. What belts did Jones have? Why would Chad have chosen to fight Cloud, Pascal, Diaconu over Tarver? Where they ranked higher than him? Were they bigger names then him? Of course not.

The Rematches

Tarver had a rematch clause in the original contract when Dawson and Tarver first fought. Dawson had no choice. Why take another fight and prolong the rematch? Why not just get it the **** over with and put it behind you? After the Johnson fight, the majority of the boxing community wanted to see the rematch. So much **** was talked by Dawson retractors about the rematch not happening that it became the fight that most wanted to see Dawson commit to. Dawson does and what happens? These same people are complaining about Dawson not giving the more unknown LHW's a shot. Damn if you do, damn if you don't.

Calzaghe fans are hypocrits

Joe Calzaghe was hardly a name in boxing.......barely. He may have been a household superstar name in Great Brittain and some of the eastern world, but like it or not, if you aren't a name in America, you truly aren't a name in Boxing. Thats just the way it is. Non Americans want to say that Boxing doesn't end with the USA and thats true, it does, but Boxing FAME pretty much does. Where do easterners go to make the most money and make their names? Where did Ricky Hatton go? Lennox Lewis?

The fact that both Calzaghe and Hatton wanted to fight in AMERICA is proof of my statement. The fact that both Calzaghe and Hatton have made the most money in a fight in AMERICA is proof of my statement.

But lets a take a look at how Calzaghe has barely made a name for himself by "beating America's best" as Calzaghe stans would have you believe.

The Jeff Lacy Victory

The first "exposure" to American audiences was of Calzaghe's brilliant dismantling of the highly touted Jeff Lacy. Everyone and their mother thought Lacy was going to destroy Calzaghe, but that didn't happen. Calzaghe pretty much ended Lacy's career as a professional boxer adding a GREAT win to his resume. A classic Calzaghe preformance. This fight should NEVER be discredited

The Peter Manfredy Jr. Victory

A showcase. A fluffer for Calzaghe. Thats all this really was. Manfredo was chosen for his presumed popularity beign associated with The Contender. Not even Manfredo's own kids thought he was going to win this fight. This was a complete mismatch and every one knew it. Don't even know why Cal fans bring this victory up. Its like Cotto fans bringing up the Gomez win as proof of greatness or Floyd fans talking about the Baldomir fight.

The Bernard Hopkins Victory

Coming into this fight, Hopkins was 2-2 in his last 4 fights. He had just come off one of the most boring fights ever produced on HBO. Hopkins, regardless of his recent wins, was considered an "old man", but that didn't stop Calzaghe from chasing him for a fight. [/B] So the fight was made, the hype was made and both stepped into the ring. Calzaghe gets KD'd in the first round and takes a while to find his rythm. But he doesn't necessarily REALLY do that now does he? We don't see vintage Cal in this fight. We see someone that doesn't necessarily know how to deal with Hopkin's dirty trickery. He loses all form, doesn't even attempt to HURT Hopkins as he decides to punch Hop with the OTHER side of his glove. Most actual exchanges, Calzaghe appeared to be on the worse end of them, but his pure work rate (as ineffective as it was), won him the fight. He didnt dominate. He didnt "kick any arse" as Cal fans try to make others believe. He barely edged out Hopkins only because he did more work than him. Hell, I scored it for Calzaghe. Calzaghe looked like he never boxed professional in his life in this fight. This is Calzaghe's most recognizable win?

So looking back at all the wins against American fighters, his only TRUE, DOMINATING preformance against an ABLE and DANGEROUS American fighter was against Jeff Lacy. Hopkins was dangerous, but he didn't dominate him convincingly. If you guys want to call what he did against Hopkins Boxing, then go ahead, most wont.

So this is your "American Killer"? The only other great win was against Kessler, which I thought was brilliant. So including the Kessler fight, he's really only had 2 GREAT wins against GOOD fighters within the past 4 years.

Now, "Who the fack is Chad Dawrson? He's a nobody, who has he beat?"

Well, Chad Dawson beat and DOMINATED WBC LHW Champ, Tomaz Adamek where he came in as the underdog. But after this win, Adamek was weightdrained? That wasn't an issue before going into the Dawson fight. And we can all pretty much bet that if Admek would have won, it wouldn't have been an issue afterwards. He then went ahead and fought one of the biggest names in the LHW Division by the name of Glen Johnson and then went ahead and DOMINATED another big name, one of the BIGGEST names in the LHW division by the name of Antonio Tarver. Besides Bernard Hopkins (who wont fight Chad), those are the other 2 big names in the division. Its wouldn't have made sense for Chad to go after the other LHW's. As a matter of fact, it would have been stupid.

Is that not what you guys were asking for? For Chad to make a name for himself? You guys say he's a nobody. He has no draw power right? So how the FUK do you become a draw by fighting LESSER known opponents? THESE LESSER KNOWN OPPONENTS AREN'T EVEN RANKED HIGHER THAN THE MOST KNOWN!

"Chad Dawson wants to make his name by fighting grandpas"

So then what is it, how he is supposed to make a name for himself? Let's be real here. Isn't that how Calzaghe made his name? By fighting grandpas in Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr? Chad isn't going to raise his marketing stock by fighting people that are unknown to the general public. Thats now how this Boxing **** works. Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver were top ranked LHW when Chad fought them. He wasn't just fighting 2 old hags.

Another reason why Dawson deserves a shot at Hopkins: Hopkins is generally considered the best LHW in the world aside from Dawson. How is it blasphemy that the 1st or 2nd best LHW (in most rankings), Chad Dawson, is asking for a shot at Hopkins? Explain that to me? Isn't Hopkins supposed to fight guys like Chad Dawson? Who else is there really for him to fight? If he's going to stay at LHW, then he HAS to fight Dawson. If he's going at Haye or Adamek for a title, then fine. But Dawson shouldn't be criticized for his desire to fight the best which is Bernard Hopkins

So, again, there is no true reason why Dawson doesn't deserve a shot at Hopkins or even Calzaghe when he was active. There isn't. Any excuse Cal stans bring up can EASILY apply to Calzaghe when he was fighting. Any attempt to discredit Dawson's rise or game plan to familiarity and legacy can EASILY be applied to Calzaghe. Some one, let me know with out a DOUBT how what I've just posted isn't accurate.

Last edited by 2501; 12-05-2009 at 05:18 PM.
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#2
Old 12-05-2009, 05:12 PM
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Dawson is the truth. Posters said he was ducking a Johnson rematch then when he fought him they talked **** anyways.

Tarver-Dawson-I was signed with a rematch clause that Tarver pulled the trigger for it. It was not Dawson's fault.

Cloud, who has Cloud fought? Right now he needs to prove himself and fight somebody because while Dawson is fighting proven top LHW 40 year olds, Cloud is fighting young, green, unproven fighters who are there to get ktfo by him.

Dawson already said he wants the winner of Pascal-Diaconu II or Bernard Hopkins. Dawson would basically fight anybody right now.

The 40year old **** is lame. These 40 year old were the top LHW's when Dawson fought them.
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#3
Old 12-05-2009, 05:14 PM
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when you get done he's spent the last 2 years fighting senior citizens...fine but dont **** on calzaghe who was 37 himself for moving up and fighting hopkins and jones..thats pathetically biased
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#4
Old 12-05-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Jesus View Post
Dawson is the truth. Posters said he was ducking a Johnson rematch then when he fought him they talked **** anyways.

Tarver-Dawson-I was signed with a rematch clause that Tarver pulled the trigger for it. It was not Dawson's fault.

Cloud, who has Cloud fought? Right now he needs to prove himself and fight somebody because while Dawson is fighting proven top LHW 40 year olds, Cloud is fighting young, green, unproven fighters who are there to get ktfo by him.

Dawson already said he wants the winner of Pascal-Diaconu II or Bernard Hopkins. Dawson would basically fight anybody right now.

The 40year old **** is lame. These 40 year old were the top LHW's when Dawson fought them.
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Jesus View Post
Dawson is the truth. Posters said he was ducking a Johnson rematch then when he fought him they talked **** anyways.

Tarver-Dawson-I was signed with a rematch clause that Tarver pulled the trigger for it. It was not Dawson's fault.

Cloud, who has Cloud fought? Right now he needs to prove himself and fight somebody because while Dawson is fighting proven top LHW 40 year olds, Cloud is fighting young, green, unproven fighters who are there to get ktfo by him.

Dawson already said he wants the winner of Pascal-Diaconu II or Bernard Hopkins. Dawson would basically fight anybody right now.

The 40year old **** is lame. These 40 year old were the top LHW's when Dawson fought them.
I do think Cloud is overrated but Clinton Woods and JC Gonzalez were hardly unproven and young
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2501 View Post
This is a rare one and a kind LONG rant "a la" DLT from me, so I apologize for the length.

When Dawson and Boxing fans say Hopkins should give Dawson the time of day, or that Calzaghe should have fought Dawson, these dudes say, "Who has Chad fought? He's chasing after 40 year olds and is ducking Cloud/Pascal/Diaconu etc"



They bring up Johnson by saying "Chad fought an old man, got hurt and almost lost" but some how don't realize the stupidity of their comments. as Calzaghe also fought an "OLDER man" in Hopkins and actually got knocked down and also almost lost. Hopkins wasn't on a roll when Calzaghe decided to fight him. He was 2-2 in his last 4 fights and looked HORRIBLE in his win against Wright. Then they bring up Tarver saying "Chad only wants to fight old men" but some how forget that Calzaghe chose Jones who hasn't been significant, is more past his prime than Tarver and also got KTFO by Tarver more recently than Johnson lost to Hopkins and just got LIT UP in the first round by Danny Green. Tarver was the IBF and IBO LHW champion. What belts did Jones have? Why would Chad have chosen to fight Cloud, Pascal, Diaconu over Tarver? Where they ranked higher than him? Were they bigger names then him? Of course not.

The Rematches

Tarver had a rematch clause in the original contract when Dawson and Tarver first fought. Dawson had no choice. Why take another fight and prolong the rematch? Why not just get it the **** over with and put it behind you? After the Johnson fight, the majority of the boxing community wanted to see the rematch. So much **** was talked by Dawson retractors about the rematch not happening that it became the fight that most wanted to see Dawson commit to. Dawson does and what happens? These same people are complaining about Dawson not giving the more unknown LHW's a shot. Damn if you do, damn if you don't.

Calzaghe fans are hypocrits

Joe Calzaghe was hardly a name in boxing.......barely. He may have been a household superstar name in Great Brittain and some of the eastern world, but like it or not, if you aren't a name in America, you truly aren't a name in Boxing. Thats just the way it is. Non Americans want to say that Boxing doesn't end with the USA and thats true, it does, but Boxing FAME pretty much does. Where do easterners go to make the most money and make their names? Where did Ricky Hatton go? Lennox Lewis?

The fact that both Calzaghe and Hatton wanted to fight in AMERICA is proof of my statement. The fact that both Calzaghe and Hatton have made the most money in a fight in AMERICA is proof of my statement.

But lets a take a look at how Calzaghe has barely made a name for himself by "beating America's best" as Calzaghe stans would have you believe.

The Jeff Lacy Victory

The first "exposure" to American audiences was of Calzaghe's brilliant dismantling of the highly touted Jeff Lacy. Everyone and their mother thought Lacy was going to destroy Calzaghe, but that didn't happen. Calzaghe pretty much ended Lacy's career as a professional boxer adding a GREAT win to his resume. A classic Calzaghe preformance. This fight should NEVER be discredited

The Peter Manfredy Jr. Victory

A showcase. A fluffer for Calzaghe. Thats all this really was. Manfredo was chosen for his presumed popularity beign associated with The Contender. Not even Manfredo's own kids thought he was going to win this fight. This was a complete mismatch and every one knew it. Don't even know why Cal fans bring this victory up. Its like Cotto fans bringing up the Gomez win as proof of greatness or Floyd fans talking about the Baldomir fight.

[B]The Bernard Hopkins Victory

Coming into this fight, Hopkins was 2-2 in his last 4 fights. He had just come off one of the most boring fights ever produced on HBO. Hopkins, regardless of his recent wins, was considered an "old man", but that didn't stop Calzaghe from chasing him for a fight.
So the fight was made, the hype was made and both stepped into the ring. Calzaghe gets KD'd in the first round and takes a while to find his rythm. But he doesn't necessarily REALLY do that now does he? We don't see vintage Cal in this fight. We see someone that doesn't necessarily know how to deal with Hopkin's dirty trickery. He loses all form, doesn't even attempt to HURT Hopkins as he decides to punch Hop with the OTHER side of his glove. Most actual exchanges, Calzaghe appeared to be on the worse end of them, but his pure work rate (as ineffective as it was), won him the fight. He didnt dominate. He didnt "kick any arse" as Cal fans try to make others believe. He barely edged out Hopkins only because he did more work than him. Hell, I scored it for Calzaghe. Calzaghe looked like he never boxed professional in his life in this fight. This is Calzaghe's most recognizable win?[/B]
So looking back at all the wins against American fighters, his only TRUE, DOMINATING preformance against an ABLE and DANGEROUS American fighter was against Jeff Lacy. Hopkins was dangerous, but he didn't dominate him convincingly. If you guys want to call what he did against Hopkins Boxing, then go ahead, most wont. [/B]

So this is your "American Killer"? The only other great win was against Kessler, which I thought was brilliant. So including the Kessler fight, he's really only had 2 GREAT wins against GOOD fighters within the past 4 years.

Now, "Who the fack is Chad Dawrson? He's a nobody, who has he beat?"

Well, Chad Dawson beat and DOMINATED WBC LHW Champ, Tomaz Adamek where he came in as the underdog. But after this win, Adamek was weightdrained? That wasn't an issue before going into the Dawson fight. And we can all pretty much bet that if Admek would have won, it wouldn't have been an issue afterwards. He then went ahead and fought one of the biggest names in the LHW Division by the name of Glen Johnson and then went ahead and DOMINATED another big name, one of the BIGGEST names in the LHW division by the name of Antonio Tarver. Besides Bernard Hopkins (who wont fight Chad), those are the other 2 big names in the division. Its wouldn't have made sense for Chad to go after the other LHW's. As a matter of fact, it would have been stupid.

Is that not what you guys were asking for? For Chad to make a name for himself? You guys say he's a nobody. He has no draw power right? So how the FUK do you become a draw by fighting LESSER known opponents? THESE LESSER KNOWN OPPONENTS AREN'T EVEN RANKED HIGHER THAN THE MOST KNOWN!

[b]"Chad Dawson wants to make his name by fighting grandpas"[b]

So then what is it, how he is supposed to make a name for himself? Let's be real here. Isn't that how Calzaghe made his name? By fighting grandpas in Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr? Chad isn't going to raise his marketing stock by fighting people that are unknown to the general public. Thats now how this Boxing **** works. Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver were top ranked LHW when Chad fought them. He wasn't just fighting 2 old hags.

Another reason why Dawson deserves a shot at Hopkins: Hopkins is generally considered the best LHW in the world aside from Dawson. How is it blasphemy that the 1st or 2nd best LHW (in most rankings), Chad Dawson, is asking for a shot at Hopkins? Explain that to me? Isn't Hopkins supposed to fight guys like Chad Dawson? Who else is there really for him to fight? If he's going to stay at LHW, then he HAS to fight Dawson. If he's going at Haye or Adamek for a title, then fine. But Dawson shouldn't be criticized for his desire to fight the best which is Bernard Hopkins

So, again, there is no true reason why Dawson doesn't deserve a shot at Hopkins or even Calzaghe when he was active. There isn't. Any excuse Cal stans bring up can EASILY apply to Calzaghe when he was fighting. Any attempt to discredit Dawson's rise or game plan to familiarity and legacy can EASILY be applied to Calzaghe. Some one, let me know with out a DOUBT how what I've just posted isn't accurate.
hopkins fight was over a year ago you said joe was wrong for chasing a man who was old and 2-2...yet dawson is chasing hopkins now...you just owned yourself

Last edited by larry x; 12-05-2009 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:19 PM
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when you get done he's spent the last 2 years fighting senior citizens...fine but dont **** on calzaghe who was 37 himself for moving up and fighting hopkins and jones..thats pathetically biased
thanks Larry, you replied address my points by providing an in depth counter argument. *sarcasm*
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:19 PM
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when you get done he's spent the last 2 years fighting senior citizens...fine but dont **** on calzaghe who was 37 himself for moving up and fighting hopkins and jones..thats pathetically biased
Co-sign

And TS Calzaghe might is not a huge name but there is constant threads on him on nsb? i think only Floyd or Pac have more..
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:20 PM
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How can you hate on a 37 year old fighting two aging legends yet big up a prime fighter fighting 4 40+ year old also rans in a row?

Jones/Hopkins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tarver/Johnson.
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:20 PM
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I see my name was mentioned in the thread title. Lol. Hey, Cloud and Pascal are not higher ranked than Hopkins, but Cloud was Chad's mando, and Dawson went in another direction. Was Cotto ranked higher than Paul Williams when Margarito fought Williams? You bet your ass he was. And that didn't stop people from calling Margo a ***** and a ducker when he even as much hinted at dropping his belt and going for the fight against Cotto. Cloud has talked **** about Dawson like Cab has done with Lopez and Dawson don't want none. It's just too bad that like Dawson, Cloud fights very infrequently. Even more so. So I guess I understand why Dawson doesn't want to fight him. And after the way that Funeka got robbed I wouldn't be suprised to see Gary Shaw either try to entice Hopkins to fight Chad, or have Chad fight a total bum. Because the only way that a Dawson-Pascal fight has any financial success is if it is held in Cananda.

Calzaghe like Dawson fought shot fighters who never went on to do anything meaningful. I doubt that Tarver or Johnson will go on to beat any more top flight opponents. Glen Johnson is going to be fighting in an eliminator against some bum to become Cloud's mandatory. And when he fights Cloud, that's the end of the road for him.

The difference between Dawson and Calzaghe is that Joe's mandatories were bums. Dawson's mandatories are either good or decent fighters (Dawson is Pascal's mandatory though).

Last edited by Iceta; 12-05-2009 at 05:52 PM.
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