Why did RJJ look to counter punch? When he was fast enough to just attack? - Boxing Forum
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#1
Old 03-13-2016, 10:09 AM
AlexKid
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Default Why did RJJ look to counter punch? When he was fast enough to just attack?

Why didnt he strike first more often, without waiting for them to throw 1st?

Couldnt he just do that with his immense speed advantage?

Even if they read his shot he would still get their first b4 their counter?
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#2
Old 03-13-2016, 07:51 PM
boxingsmash69
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Originally Posted by AlexKid View Post
Why didnt he strike first more often, without waiting for them to throw 1st?

Couldnt he just do that with his immense speed advantage?

Even if they read his shot he would still get their first b4 their counter?
Easier said than done, to be honest.

A core element of RJJ's style was his super quick reaction TO punches.

Combined with his fast, unorthodox style; they all factor into his success.
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#3
Old 03-13-2016, 09:50 PM
AlexKid
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Originally Posted by boxingsmash69 View Post
Easier said than done, to be honest.

A core element of RJJ's style was his super quick reaction TO punches.

Combined with his fast, unorthodox style; they all factor into his success.
why is it so hard? esp when you are so fast?
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#4
Old 03-14-2016, 07:04 PM
boxingsmash69
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Originally Posted by AlexKid View Post
why is it so hard? esp when you are so fast?
Being fast isn't the only attribute needed to "just" let your punches go and expect to land all the time.

Your opponents are also trained fighters, and in this manner; boxing. That means looking out for all signs and motions that signal a punch incoming.

Every time you throw a punch, you give you opponent a window of opportunity to counter. You can't just go in guns blazing throwing a maximum speed every time hoping to land.

RJJ was special because his reflexes allowed him to see (and sometimes predict) oncoming punches and react to them extremely fast. They also allowed him to fight in such an unorthodox style; getting away with things you're not "supposed" to do according to textbook boxing.

He was a specialist at reaction; but he also cared about the whole "hit and don't get hit" mentality. Why take unnecessary punishment when you're already dominating the fight?

Boxers at the high level are doing things that are hard to notice unless you're very experienced.

It may look like RJJ is "just" waiting for his opponents to punch first so he can counter effectively, but it's more complex than that. For example, he could be setting up counters by feinting; not just sitting and waiting.

That's a form of action to cause a reaction from your opponent.

Last edited by boxingsmash69; 03-14-2016 at 07:14 PM.
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#5
Old 03-21-2016, 01:00 AM
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I rather fight a fast aggressive person than a fast counter puncher. Counter punching does much more to the mind, it makes you hesitate to throw punches. If you can launch and offensive while shutting down your opponents offense, why not? The greatest fear of a counter puncher is getting counter punched.....speed can be countered with timing
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#6
Old 03-21-2016, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxingsmash69 View Post
Being fast isn't the only attribute needed to "just" let your punches go and expect to land all the time.

Your opponents are also trained fighters, and in this manner; boxing. That means looking out for all signs and motions that signal a punch incoming.

Every time you throw a punch, you give you opponent a window of opportunity to counter. You can't just go in guns blazing throwing a maximum speed every time hoping to land.

RJJ was special because his reflexes allowed him to see (and sometimes predict) oncoming punches and react to them extremely fast. They also allowed him to fight in such an unorthodox style; getting away with things you're not "supposed" to do according to textbook boxing.

He was a specialist at reaction; but he also cared about the whole "hit and don't get hit" mentality. Why take unnecessary punishment when you're already dominating the fight?

Boxers at the high level are doing things that are hard to notice unless you're very experienced.

It may look like RJJ is "just" waiting for his opponents to punch first so he can counter effectively, but it's more complex than that. For example, he could be setting up counters by feinting; not just sitting and waiting.

That's a form of action to cause a reaction from your opponent.

awesome thanks bro, you know your boxing very well!!
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#7
Old 03-21-2016, 06:30 AM
AlexKid
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Originally Posted by MrMayhem View Post
I rather fight a fast aggressive person than a fast counter puncher. Counter punching does much more to the mind, it makes you hesitate to throw punches. If you can launch and offensive while shutting down your opponents offense, why not? The greatest fear of a counter puncher is getting counter punched.....speed can be countered with timing
excellent points thanks bro!!
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#8
Old 03-21-2016, 06:52 AM
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awesome thanks bro, you know your boxing very well!!
Really? because I disagree. Roy was lacking in fundamentals. This nonsense about how you have to know the rules to breaks them is rubbish. He had flaws developed from relying on his instincts. Go watch Eric Morales break someone down with speed on the front foot. You have to be able to draw out punches, have the footwork to move in without being punched and counter the counters...It's way harder to do ..I'm trying to figure out how to upload a video of me shadow boxing... You will see all the stuff I've been talking about when I do
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#9
Old 03-21-2016, 08:39 AM
AlexKid
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Originally Posted by PivotandRoll View Post
Really? because I disagree. Roy was lacking in fundamentals. This nonsense about how you have to know the rules to breaks them is rubbish. He had flaws developed from relying on his instincts. Go watch Eric Morales break someone down with speed on the front foot. You have to be able to draw out punches, have the footwork to move in without being punched and counter the counters...It's way harder to do ..I'm trying to figure out how to upload a video of me shadow boxing... You will see all the stuff I've been talking about when I do
The most effective way to fight for a normal person is not the most effective way to fight for RJJ, you are wrong on this one Roy is really smart!

Sure as he got older it didnt pay off but when you are older your best days are behind you, its more about what you can do at your best rather than how long you can last in the sport
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#10
Old 03-21-2016, 12:31 PM
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Lets not forget that Roy didn't have the strongest chin. Being an offensive fighter opens you for hard counters even with great fundamentals which Roy didn't have. I dont think that any trainer in their right mind would look at Roy's skill set and conclude that it is best for Roy to take such risks given his chin.

Your best offensive fighters have one thing in common, very good chins.

Last edited by GTTofAK; 03-21-2016 at 12:33 PM.
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