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#1
Old 04-01-2005, 07:59 AM
tommyhearns804
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Default George Foreman a physical freak of nature

He didn't get his body or weight into his punches. His leverage was so-so at best. Basically, he was an arm puncher. He first won the heavyweight title in 1973 with a devastating knockout over an undefeated undisputed champion. After retiring in March of 1977, he came back in March of 1987 after a ten year hiatus during which he didn't fight once. In November of 1994 he won the title for a second time with a one punch knockout over an undefeated champ at age 45.

His name is George Foreman, and to me he is one of the biggest physical freaks of nature in sports history. Think about it, he has just about the highest knockout percentage in heavyweight history. Yet he was an arm puncher. He's the last guy you'd want teaching your fighter how to punch, because he didn't know how from a fundamental or technical vantage point. Basically, he throws a punch like a novice slaps, only his arm has a balled fist at the end.

What George Foreman could do was punch. When you break Foreman down as a fighter, what can you really say about him? Sure he was very tough mentally and was also fearless. He had a great chin and his punching power was unmatched. His jab was a sledgehammer, and his hook and uppercut had neck-breaking power. However, all of those things, except for his mental strength and toughness, tie into his God given physical strength.

In Foreman's first 25 or so fights in the 70's, he exhibited a pretty good jab. However, once he started clubbing fighters out, he just started going for the big shot from the onset. Foreman had some boxing skills, but he was allowed to abandon them because of his power. His trainer Dick Saddler fell in love with George's power, and he cut a lot of corners when teaching him basics. Saddler's attitude was, George, go run a few miles and then go pound the heavy bag. Because there ain't a man in the world who can stand up to your punch. This was something Saddler repeated often and was proud of.

Think about it, Ali had to take a pounding before he was able to open up and fight Foreman. It's not like Ali outfought or out boxed him from start to finish. While Foreman had his strength, Ali really couldn't fight him. Had Ali not had one of the greatest chin's in heavyweight history, or not have the capacity to absorb the best body shot of any heavyweight in history, he would've lost to Foreman. It was Ali's durability and toughness that enabled him to beat Foreman, not necessarily his speed and skill as a boxer. That's why, in my opinion, Ali was the only mover or boxer who could've defeated Foreman at his peak. As tough as Tunney and Holmes were, there is no way either of them could take it to the head and body like Ali. That's why they would not have been around in the eighth round to see Foreman tire so they could out box him. I don't think they could've held the undefeated Foreman off like Ali did until he tired and wound down?


After Foreman lost to Young he retired. His first career was from June of 1969 thru March of 1977. During that time he won the title and held it for almost two years. His record when he retired was 45-2 (42). Although he fought in one of the best eras in heavyweight history, and beat an all-time great in Frazier to win the title, Foreman didn't have a clue about boxing basics. The only thing that enabled Foreman to go through the division and become champ was his strength and power that only he was blessed with at birth. Had Foreman learned how to get his body into his punches, and not been an arm puncher, it would have been illegal to allow him to fight.

Ten years after retiring, Foreman came back at age 38. During his prime in the 70's, he fought between 217-232 pounds. The second incarnation of Foreman fought between 240-267. This older version of Foreman was much slower, but fought at a much more measured pace. He fought more relaxed and loose. That's the thing that allowed him to go rounds without being exhausted. The amazing thing was although he didn't retain all the power that he had in the 70's, he still had dynamite in both hands and scored some devastating knockouts.

Four years into his comeback, Foreman fought undisputed Heavyweight Champ Evander Holyfield, who just won the title from Mike Tyson conqueror Buster Douglas. Holyfield was at his absolute physical peak at this time. Going into the Holyfield fight, Foreman was thought to have no shot and most likely would be stopped. In the bout, Foreman was out boxed and out maneuvered losing a unanimous decision. However, the strength and power of Foreman was evident throughout the bout. During the 12 rounds Foreman shook Holyfield a few times, and forced him to fight moving away. The problem Foreman had with Holyfield was simply that he was too slow to mount a sustained offensive attack.

A little over three years after losing to Holyfield, Foreman fought the man who took Holyfield's title eight month's earlier, Michael Moorer. In a fight Foreman was clearly being outfought, he scored a devastating one-punch knockout in the 10th round to win the title at age 45. Foreman's knockout of Moorer put him in the history book's as the oldest man to win the Heavyweight title. A record that still stands.

The really amazing thing about George Foreman was that the only real weapon he had was his strength and awesome power. Although he was mentally tough and determined, along with being fearless, it was his power that carried him to the Heavyweight Championship twice. Think about it, he wasn't a good boxer, he wasn't fast, and his offense was his defense. His only true weapon was his strength and power.

Five and a half years after decisioning Foreman, Holyfield was thought to be shot. In November of 1996, Holyfield fought WBA-WBC champ Mike Tyson. Holyfield went on to stop Tyson in the 11th round. In this fight, Holyfield won no less than 8 of the 10 rounds they fought before stopping Tyson in the 11th. He out fought and muscled Tyson the entire fight. This was a 30-year old Tyson who just scored impressive knockout victories in winning both title belts only months earlier. Basically, an older Holyfield controlled and out muscled a 30-year old Tyson, something he wasn't able to do versus a 42 year old Foreman when he was in his prime.

Three years after beating Tyson, Holyfield defended both of his titles versus IBF champ Lennox Lewis twice. In their first fight, Holyfield was clearly out fought by Lewis, yet was the aggressor in the fight. In the rematch six months later, a better-prepared Holyfield lost a close decision. In this fight, Holyfield was the more effective aggressor and was able to push Lewis back the whole fight. The point is a 34 year old prime Lewis wasn't able to move an eroded Holyfield around the ring like a 42 year old Foreman did. In Holyfield's fights with Foreman and Lewis, Foreman's jab forced Holyfield to retreat, something Lewis couldn't do with his big right hand and uppercuts.

Against Tyson and Lewis, an older Holyfield was more in control physically, than a younger Holyfield was versus an older Foreman. In fact, Foreman actually had Holyfield shook a few times, something neither Tyson or Lewis were able to do once.

What other former heavyweight champ could've taken off ten years, and then comeback to win boxing’s greatest prize? When Foreman came back in the late 80's, he had one weapon, just like he had in the 70's, power and strength. Foreman wasn't a great boxer at any time in his career. In the 70's he fought in a rage that was nothing more than a charge from his stool to his opponent's chin. In the late 80's and 90's, Foreman's biggest weapon was his strength and punch. Some say he was a smarter boxer, but he really just fought at a more measured pace. Basically, he just tempered his aggression. His goal was to score a knockout regardless of what version of his career you're discussing.

In the 70's, Foreman was hurt badly only by Ron Lyle, who was a terrific puncher. And Foreman was in dreadful shape in the Lyle fight. It was his first fight in 15 months after losing to Ali, unless you count the Toronto-5 exhibition, which I don't. Ali stopped him, but it was due to Foreman's severe fatigue. Against Jimmy Young he was a head case and was beaten before his hands were even wrapped. In his comeback, he wasn't hurt or close to going down once. Not by Holyfield, who hit him with over 25 unanswered punches in the ninth round of their fight. Not by Cooney, who he devastated, or Bert Cooper who was very dangerous early in the fight. Not by Morrison, who was forced to run like Carl Lewis from him. And not by Michael Moorer, who hit him at will until Foreman dropped one short right hand on his chin.

George Foreman was a physical freak of nature. Never in heavyweight history has one fighter accomplished so much, while possessing just one weapon, strength and power. I can't imagine other big punchers like Lewis, Liston, Frazier, Louis, Tyson or Marciano taking off 10 years and then coming back at age 45 and winning the title? Remember, Tyson wanted no part of Foreman in the early 90's, which I know to be an absolute fact (although some Tyson fans try to pretend it's not). Lewis never asked for him during that time. And Holyfield who did fight him, was banged around despite winning and was holding on at the end. And Holyfield says to this day that Foreman was without a doubt the strongest and best puncher he ever fought.

The prime of Foreman ended in The "20th of May" stadium on an October night in 1974. If George Foreman knew how to box and punch from a fundamental standpoint, it would've been illegal to allow him to fight.

George Foreman is definitely a physical freak of nature!
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#2
Old 04-01-2005, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyhearns804

George Foreman is definitely a physical freak of nature!
he is, but i prime lennox lewis would ko him. he have only strengt and than isnt enough. lennox lewis would out jab him and sooner or later ko him. but nomatter what he is definitely a physical freal of nature. ko moorer he was 45 thats strong by him.
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#3
Old 04-01-2005, 10:34 AM
tommyhearns804
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you are a moron lennox lewis couldnt even knock out a washed holyfield so how in the hell would he knock out a prime foreman?not to mention lennox lewis has a glass chin.learn more about boxing before you open your mouth
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#4
Old 04-01-2005, 11:05 AM
leff
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great post on foremann, but i must had he allso had pretty good stamina in his prime.

and too the fool who said lewis would ko foremann.......your a fool.
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#5
Old 04-02-2005, 01:46 AM
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He had huge power, but as you noted his boxing skills were extremely sloppy, and he was so damn slow... I don't think that Ali had to let george wear himself out first before he opened up on him, I think that Ali did that just so he could say that he didn't run from Foreman, did it just so he could say that he stood there and took Foreman's shots and still beat him. If you watch that fight you can see that Ali easily avoids almost all of Foreman's punches while standing still on the ropes - if he'd floated and stung instead he would have taken Foreman apart just the same with his vastly superior speed and boxing abilities and Foreman would hardly have hit him at all.

Overall Foreman is a guy with alot of natural talent, alot of intelligence, but not alot of boxing skill.
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Old 04-02-2005, 06:47 AM
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Foreman was pretty well schooled and had good fundamentals.
He moved his feet well, and was very good at cutting off the ring. Because of his monster power, he never had to develop those boxing skills further.

Young Foreman looks like a ballerina compared with the lumbering big men of today (Lewis, Klit, et. ) . He was positively fluid next to those guys.

At the time, coming in the wake of Ali, Foreman himself was described as lumbering and slow. Compared with the big men of today, he was neither .
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#7
Old 04-02-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyhearns804
you are a moron lennox lewis couldnt even knock out a washed holyfield so how in the hell would he knock out a prime foreman?not to mention lennox lewis has a glass chin.learn more about boxing before you open your mouth
washed holyfield?, he ko tyson and moorer just before that fight. lennox lewis have his number. i am imp of foreman´s power and thats only thing he had. lennox lewis is also a hard punches and skills. foreman´s dont have good defence, ll would punch throw his gloves.
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#8
Old 04-03-2005, 11:16 AM
tommyhearns804
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holyfield was washed up before he even fought tyson.knocking out tyson only proved a washed up guy with heart and no fear could beat a overated coward who folds when you put pressure on him.name on world class fighter in his prime lewis knocked out?nobody.he ran like a girl from a over the hill holyfield.he would be destroyed by a prime foreman
and why do people keep insisting a prime foreman was slow?if they was the case wouldnt it be easy for people to just out box him?why wasnt people like norton and frazier able to pick him apart?45-2 42 ko's so i guess the 45 people foreman destroyed were dead when they fougth foreman. the foreman slow bull came from ali and has stuck with slow witted people who never watched foreman fight since them.read alis book and read what he said about foremans speed of foot.he said he was planning on boxing foreman but one he got in the ring he realized foreman was way to quick to out box and that he would be ko'd if he tried that.so he layed against the ropes hoping foreman would get tired.
foreman was quicker than people like marciano who whites worship.foreman is quick than lewis who young guys who never seen foreman frazier lyle norton and ali fight worship.formean had a really really quick jab and a right hand.the fight with ali wasnt the way foreman usually fought.he didnt respect ali and thought he could knock him out easily.and then he let ali get in his head and tried to knock him out with one punch.it was luck.ali got lucky.you dont think douglas was better than tyson do you?how about max shmeling do you think he is better than joe louis?i doubt you do and both tyson and lous were destroyed.
and foremans defense in his prime was just as good as ali.which isnt really saying much because both kept their hands low alot.but foremans offense and power made his defense unimportant.
just go back and watch more of foremans fights besides the ali one and you will see how great he really was
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#9
Old 04-03-2005, 02:57 PM
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Good post, although I don't think Foreman just threw arm punches. He used his lower body and torso to generate power just like any other great puncher.
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#10
Old 04-10-2005, 02:23 AM
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you forgot one thing that man makes a fine grill
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