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#1
Old 03-05-2015, 03:19 PM
sonnyboyx2
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Default Hopkins vs Toney 160-175lb on their best night.

Who would have won. How do you see it unfolding?
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#2
Old 03-05-2015, 04:20 PM
f15bone
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This came real close to happening...

I like Toney in this one...James was one of the most naturally gifted fighters I have ever seen...It's a wonder that he was able to fight the way he did considering his limited amateur background...

Hopkins was also a natural but lacked Toney's freakish athleticism...Remember Toney was also a former all state high school football player out of Ann Arbor...

This would definitely be chess match as both guys were defensive wizards & counter punching fiends...The difference would the speed of Toney & his ability to match B- hops physical strength...

Toney wins a razor thin SD...
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#3
Old 03-05-2015, 05:36 PM
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I like hopkins because he is a better mover... Hopkins would be on his bike all night, pecking away at toney and would win a close competitive fight..

It won't be as exciting as toney-mccallum because hopkins won't take the chances mccallum did.. Toney's bad habit of fighting in spurts would allow hopkins to steal rounds..
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#4
Old 03-05-2015, 06:31 PM
young_robbed
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In my opinion, Toney was more talented than Hopkins ever was. In a pure sense, Hopkins was better overall and would give anyone nightmares. He was an all terrain type fighter. but in the dimension that Toney focused on, he was a lot more talented and arguably better than Hopkins.

At counter punching, Toney was more skilled than Hopkins. Hopkins was a great spoiler, but he really couldn't handle certain styles.

I think it's a pretty close competitive fight, but if Toney is at his very best at MW he should edge it IMO. At most ranges, Toney will have the advantage.
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#5
Old 03-05-2015, 09:13 PM
Mugwump
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Toney was a natural from the outset. It's taken Hopkins decades to develop some of the skills Toney had as a kid. Meanwhile his attacking threat has gone the other way.

This is why it's so hard to pin down Hopkins' peak. I mean, I give the guy credit for his professionalism, work ethic, toughness and skill - but even at his best he couldn't match the kind of skills Toney took for granted.

The most obvious divergence is in defence. Both fighters were defensively solid. But whereas it was obvious that Hopkins' methods were a result of practice, hard work and self-discipline developed and honed over years - Toney was gifted. The guy was poetry in perpetual motion.

Hopkins is a tactical mastermind. But Toney is a tactician's worst nightmare. How can you devise a counter-strategy to a guy who is so flexible and alert in mind and body that he can react and adapt on the fly?

Every kid new to boxing should be FORCED to watch James Toney defend. Aside from Mayweather, I can't think of too many fighters who turned defence into an art-form.

Oh, and Toney - by plenty.
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#6
Old 03-05-2015, 09:51 PM
billeau2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
Who would have won. How do you see it unfolding?
Well Sonny Boy you know me and in something like this....Where the phrase toss up best describes the situation....I gotta at least look at precedent. precedent gives me two clues: One is less reliable than the other, namely against a common opponent Hopkins did better....So ok Bernard was at least competative against Roy. But better information yet is that when Bernard was faced against the power of Roy he made adjustments Toney did not. That means something to me.

it means that I have to give a slight edge to Bernard on this account because he may be able to outfox James and make some adjustments if things are close and even if Toney gets to him.

On the other hand, one must ask about the Jermaine Taylor fights because regardless if Taylor won those fights or not....Jermaine's strength did give Hopkins some problems early. Toney has Taylor strength and can punch.

So the way I see the fight going is Toney scoring early and even touching Hopkins up. Hopkins gets better in deep water, if it goes twelve Toney probably wins, in the old days a legitimate 15 rounder Hopkins would take it stealing the later rounds.

I should say that I also believe Toney is the more skilled and natural fighter....its just that Hopkins is a guy who can force a natural to second guess oneself...for example the Winky wright fight.

Last edited by billeau2; 03-05-2015 at 09:55 PM.
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#7
Old 03-05-2015, 10:05 PM
Mugwump
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billeau2 View Post
Well Sonny Boy you know me and in something like this....Where the phrase toss up best describes the situation....I gotta at least look at precedent. precedent gives me two clues: One is less reliable than the other, namely against a common opponent Hopkins did better....So ok Bernard was at least competative against Roy. But better information yet is that when Bernard was faced against the power of Roy he made adjustments Toney did not. That means something to me.

it means that I have to give a slight edge to Bernard on this account because he may be able to outfox James and make some adjustments if things are close and even if Toney gets to him.

On the other hand, one must ask about the Jermaine Taylor fights because regardless if Taylor won those fights or not....Jermaine's strength did give Hopkins some problems early. Toney has Taylor strength and can punch.

So the way I see the fight going is Toney scoring early and even touching Hopkins up. Hopkins gets better in deep water, if it goes twelve Toney probably wins, in the old days a legitimate 15 rounder Hopkins would take it stealing the later rounds.

I should say that I also believe Toney is the more skilled and natural fighter....its just that Hopkins is a guy who can force a natural to second guess oneself...for example the Winky wright fight.
But Toney vs Hopkins at the same age is a tough fight for Hopkins because he only developed fully in defence toward the back end of his career.

Prime Toney vs Hopkins would probably insert a decade or more between the two. But Hopkins' workrate dropped in relation to his age. I'm not sure he'd be able to accrue enough points to win the majority of rounds. Remember, young Toney was busy and accurate. And he had stamina.

I suppose B-HOP could get lucky and KO Toney. But that would require more fairy stardust than he has any right to put faith in.
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#8
Old 03-05-2015, 11:19 PM
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close fight, very close. prime for prime I pick Toney.

My reasons:

Toney in shape was world class, no stamina issues, lots of speed, iron chin, skilled, accurate..little bit overrated power but a good puncher.

Hopkins is all that as well but a shade lower in all of those categories besides stamina. The difference is Hopkins was a gym rat and stayed proffessional his entire career, but h2h he has fallen short (Roy Jones) and basically a ton of average competition at MW.

Toney sparked Nunn and had 2 fights with Mccallum and proved his ability in his prime form.
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#9
Old 03-06-2015, 12:58 AM
beez721
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a focused in shape toney beats Hopkins in a ud every time. hes just a little better in all aspects than hops. if he had been as disciplined and hard working as hops who knows what he could have achieved in his career. he was an amazing fighter and one of the toughest of all time hands down. hell,,,,,look at his chin at heavyweight. he was well past his prime and best fighting weight but still managed to go 20 rounds with a big natural heavyweight puncher in sam peter. this guy was nails tough
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#10
Old 03-06-2015, 01:00 AM
beez721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
close fight, very close. prime for prime I pick Toney.

My reasons:

Toney in shape was world class, no stamina issues, lots of speed, iron chin, skilled, accurate..little bit overrated power but a good puncher.

Hopkins is all that as well but a shade lower in all of those categories besides stamina. The difference is Hopkins was a gym rat and stayed proffessional his entire career, but h2h he has fallen short (Roy Jones) and basically a ton of average competition at MW.

Toney sparked Nunn and had 2 fights with Mccallum and proved his ability in his prime form.
exactly as I see it. good post
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