Are P4P rankings complete works of fiction?

[Spray_resistant]

P4P rankings are ratings which in chronological order list who would be the best fighter in the world if all of the best fighters from every weight class could be scaled down to the same size all while retaining the attributes which made them successful fighters. These rankings have nearly nothing to do with wins and everything to do with skills and perceived ability. Fighters with great skill and ability tend to win alot as crazy as that is.
When one great or at least good fighter gets a win over a high caliber fighter he is often ranked in the p4p top 10 or re ranked because his perceived skill has to be re-evaluated against the perceived skill and ability of other top fighters.
Since the p4p rankings are based entirely off of perceived skill/ability and an imaginary tourney where every fighter is scaled down to the same size, isn't it all just subject to the subjective imagination of a few select ppl? I mean the best fighters in the world can't be scaled down and if they could they would be totally different fighters and would not have the attributes which made them successful, but this is what p4p rankings are based on when you deconstruct the basis behind it. So should p4p rankings not be discussed or given thought with any degree of seriousness because they are complete works of fiction not based in reality?

[Crazylegs77]

Yes the lists are not fact as it is impossible to prove who the best fighter is unless they fight each other and the same opponents like a tournament. But they can use some kind of statistics to make an argument for who the best is but I highly doubt they do that. I think they should base it on who has won vs the best overall opposition. Not just who has won vs a popular fighter lately.

[The Gambler1981]

I do not think they are complete fiction as you can use facts to build the list, but still there is no set criteria and it all depends on the eye of the beholder.

I would call it a fact based drama but with some creative licence, not total fiction.

[joelab75]

i think even though its mythical people still give a **** about it. atleast most boxing fans. the. you cant go wrong picking Manny as a p4p king right now since he is the most active boxers and won his last 3 fights in a devastating fashion. and those 3 boxers were all bigger than him.

[JohnCIV6]

Great way of breaking the P4P down. That was insightful.

I personally believe they rely on size to much... It seems like the small guys get the credit P4P wise, because the smaller you are, generally you are faster... Though the bigger you are, you generally hit harder.. If you moved a HW down to WW. Would the WW be too fast, or would the HW be to strong and hit to hard. I think there is a very fine line when it comes to this.

I believe it should be looked at as whole of boxing skill, who you have beat, and the fashion in which you do it.. The whole weight factor seems irrelevant to me, because if you put everyone at an even weight, the HW would probably be faster, but not punch as hard.. The WW would be slower, but possibly hit harder??? Saying someone is P4P best is saying that if everyone's weight and size were leveled, they would beat everyone. This makes no sense to me.. Of course the WW will be faster and more impressive, but the HW will hit harder, and that may be more impressive to some..

So all in all if your not following me, the whole P4P thing is a bunch of bs, IMO.

[Spray_resistant]

Great way of breaking the P4P down. That was insightful.

I personally believe they rely on size to much... It seems like the small guys get the credit P4P wise, because the smaller you are, generally you are faster... Though the bigger you are, you generally hit harder.. If you moved a HW down to WW. Would the WW be too fast, or would the HW be to strong and hit to hard. I think there is a very fine line when it comes to this.

I believe it should be looked at as whole of boxing skill, who you have beat, and the fashion in which you do it.. The whole weight factor seems irrelevant to me, because if you put everyone at an even weight, the HW would probably be faster, but not punch as hard.. The WW would be slower, but possibly hit harder??? Saying someone is P4P best is saying that if everyone's weight and size were leveled, they would beat everyone. This makes no sense to me.. Of course the WW will be faster and more impressive, but the HW will hit harder, and that may be more impressive to some..

So all in all if your not following me, the whole P4P thing is a bunch of bs, IMO.

Believe it or not Boxrec actually has the best p4p system because it has some solid basis and it is still **** even.....I made a thread before about how I thought it was better than the Ring's rankings even though its still not very good.....After much thought I decided not to give p4p rankings anymore serious thought. I have my own system but its just for fun like fantasy fights.

[JohnCIV6]

Believe it or not Boxrec actually has the best p4p system because it has some solid basis and it is still **** even.....I made a thread before about how I thought it was better than the Ring's rankings even though its still not very good.....After much thought I decided not to give p4p rankings anymore serious thought. I have my own system but its just for fun like fantasy fights.

Ya, I think it may be fun to make my own P4p system.. Im just not a big fan of judging it by weight, but rather by actual skill, and the level of people you beat at your own weight.

[Spray_resistant]

Ya, I think it may be fun to make my own P4p system.. Im just not a big fan of judging it by weight, but rather by actual skill, and the level of people you beat at your own weight.

You mean not in the sense that if they could all actually fight at a scaled down weight but on the individual fighters independent merit, having nothing to do with competing fighters in the p4p rankings?

[JohnCIV6]

You mean not in the sense that if they could all actually fight at a scaled down weight but on the individual fighters independent merit, having nothing to do with competing fighters in the p4p rankings?

It's really hard to explain.. If you have them all scaled down to the same weight and size, wouldn't the fastest HW, be as fast as the fastest LW? The hardest punching LW would punch as hard as the hardest punching HW? This is why I just don't really get the P4P term.. If your going to go by P4P, then you would have to take in account the spped gained by being smaller, or the power gained by being bigger.

Im having a hard time explaining it.. What im trying to say, is that if I were to do it, I would take weight completely out of the equation, and rely on resume's of each contender for P4P king. I know that doesn't make complete sense since it is referring to weight being a main factor in P4P best...

Lol, I feel like im confusing everyone including myself, but what I mean is that scaling everyone down, i'd think it would be hard to target what speed rating, power rating, etc, each fighter would get from each division.

[Spray_resistant]

It's really hard to explain.. If you have them all scaled down to the same weight and size, wouldn't the fastest HW, be as fast as the fastest LW? The hardest punching LW would punch as hard as the hardest punching HW? This is why I just don't really get the P4P term.. If your going to go by P4P, then you would have to take in account the spped gained by being smaller, or the power gained by being bigger.

Im having a hard time explaining it.. What im trying to say, is that if I were to do it, I would take weight completely out of the equation, and rely on resume's of each contender for P4P king. I know that doesn't make complete sense since it is referring to weight being a main factor in P4P best...

Lol, I feel like im confusing everyone including myself.

This was my whole problem with the basis of the current system because if you scaled them down or up in size they would be totally different fighters and not have the attributes that made them successful in the first place. For ex. what if you scale all of the best up to HW? Now think about Paul Williams at HW, he doesn't have the advantages that made him successful in the first place being much taller/longer than his opponents so how good would he be if we did this for him vs other top fighters?