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#1
Old 09-29-2009, 09:33 AM
The Noose
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Default Which Middleweights were better then Hopkins?

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Les Darcy, Marvin Hagler, Harry Greb, Stanley Ketchel, Ray Robinson, Jake La Motta, Emile Griffith, Carlos Monzon, Mickey"toy bulldog" Walker, Tony Zale, Carmen Basilio, Gene Fullmer, Marcel Cerdan, Tiger Flowers, Sam Langford, Joey Giardello & Dick Tiger ***65279;
They all fought in strong Middleweight eras, fighting good fully fledged Middleweights.

If Hopkins best wins are against smaller men moving up, and he also lost to Jones, and Calzaghe, how does he compare to the names above?
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#2
Old 09-29-2009, 09:50 AM
Dynamite Kid
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Originally Posted by Bob Anomaly View Post
They all fought in strong Middleweight eras, fighting good fully fledged Middleweights.

If Hopkins best wins are against smaller men moving up, and he also lost to Jones, and Calzaghe, how does he compare to the names above?
You say" best wins" but i dont think anyone considers the DLH win any better than his wins over a prime Pavlik or lets say Winky, Tarver.

Joe Calzaghe did not beat Nard Hopkins as far as im concerned, you have to land punches to win rounds, not flail away hitting the air, i dont give subliminal points for direction of motion or ineffective aggression, that is why i would of called it a draw because neither guy did enough to win.
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#3
Old 09-29-2009, 10:26 AM
Joey Giardello
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Carlos Monzon, Harry Greb, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Billy conn, Jake La motta, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Ryan, Stanley Ketchel, Sugar Ray Robinson, Rodrigo Valdes, Les Darcy, Michael nunn, Gerald Mccellan, James Toney and Joey Giardello all could of beat hopkins on there best day and hopkins best day! hopkins best wins were over a blown up lightwelter in oscar, and blown up over trained trinidad, for me hopkins has been a better lightheavy than middle, he just made more defences of his titles at middle. Also hopkins lost twice to taylor could you see jermain beating a carlos monzon or marvin hagler? i dont think so. I think hopkins as a middleweight is very over rated and he has looked better beating bigger, harder fighters at lighthheavy
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#4
Old 09-29-2009, 10:35 AM
sonnyboyx2
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Originally Posted by Dynamite Kid View Post
You say" best wins" but i dont think anyone considers the DLH win any better than his wins over a prime Pavlik or lets say Winky, Tarver.

Joe Calzaghe did not beat Nard Hopkins as far as im concerned, you have to land punches to win rounds, not flail away hitting the air, i dont give subliminal points for direction of motion or ineffective aggression, that is why i would of called it a draw because neither guy did enough to win.
i agree with you.. i dont think Calzaghe beat Bhop i feel Bhop kinda gifted the result to Calzaghe by faining injury... i had Bhop winning the fight, but his actions late on were bazzar.. i think he was trying to get the crowd and judges on his side but it backfired, Calzaghe never landed any correct punches which would have earned him points and the decision, i had it for Hopkins 6-5-1 rds
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#5
Old 09-29-2009, 11:29 AM
Joey Giardello
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
i agree with you.. i dont think Calzaghe beat Bhop i feel Bhop kinda gifted the result to Calzaghe by faining injury... i had Bhop winning the fight, but his actions late on were bazzar.. i think he was trying to get the crowd and judges on his side but it backfired, Calzaghe never landed any correct punches which would have earned him points and the decision, i had it for Hopkins 6-5-1 rds
the calzaghe/hopkins fight should of been a draw, for me it just shows how great of a fighter joe was, to get up of the floor and claw hiscway back into the fight, thats the sign of a great fighter
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#6
Old 09-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Joey Giardello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
i agree with you.. i dont think Calzaghe beat Bhop i feel Bhop kinda gifted the result to Calzaghe by faining injury... i had Bhop winning the fight, but his actions late on were bazzar.. i think he was trying to get the crowd and judges on his side but it backfired, Calzaghe never landed any correct punches which would have earned him points and the decision, i had it for Hopkins 6-5-1 rds
the calzaghe/hokind fight should of been a draw, for me it just shows how great of a fighter joe was, to get up of the floor and claw his way back into the fight, thats the sign of a great fighter
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#7
Old 09-29-2009, 11:39 AM
Dynamite Kid
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
i agree with you.. i dont think Calzaghe beat Bhop i feel Bhop kinda gifted the result to Calzaghe by faining injury... i had Bhop winning the fight, but his actions late on were bazzar.. i think he was trying to get the crowd and judges on his side but it backfired, Calzaghe never landed any correct punches which would have earned him points and the decision, i had it for Hopkins 6-5-1 rds
Well i would of called a draw personally, but if pushed on the issue i would of leaned towards Hopkins, why? because at least he imposed his game plan on Calzaghe, albeit he did do it for long enough, that is why i cant give him the fight, that said he (Hopkins) was the more effective out of the two imo.
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#8
Old 09-29-2009, 04:21 PM
mickey malone
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Monzon
Hagler
Jones
Greb
Robinson
Ketchel

Would be my pick, but they'd all go to the wire..
Have to disagree with some of you.. I thought Calzaghe won the fight by 2 rounds..
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#9
Old 09-29-2009, 04:27 PM
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Hopkins, I think, definitely deserves to be in the top 10; but the Middleweight division has been loaded with talent ever since Jack Dempsey..."The Nonpareil" became it's first champion. It's almost as if you have to rank a guy # 1.1, 1.2, 5.5, etc. Sucks really. You can develope a migrane just trying to put together a Top 10 list.....and I'll bet you the farm your own Top Ten would change once every couple of years if you were really honest with yourself.

At least I know mine has.
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#10
Old 09-29-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Joey Giardello View Post
Carlos Monzon, Harry Greb, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Billy conn, Jake La motta, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Ryan, Stanley Ketchel, Sugar Ray Robinson, Rodrigo Valdes, Les Darcy, Michael nunn, Gerald Mccellan, James Toney and Joey Giardello all could of beat hopkins on there best day and hopkins best day! hopkins best wins were over a blown up lightwelter in oscar, and blown up over trained trinidad, for me hopkins has been a better lightheavy than middle, he just made more defences of his titles at middle. Also hopkins lost twice to taylor could you see jermain beating a carlos monzon or marvin hagler? i dont think so. I think hopkins as a middleweight is very over rated and he has looked better beating bigger, harder fighters at lighthheavy
No...

Conn was better at LHW than MW. He lost to his best MW opposition and only won rematches after weighing in way past the limit.

LaMotta, really? Come now... LaMotta only beat great fighters by outweighing them by 10+ lbs or breaking their arm.

The Valdes fight goes down like Hopkins vs Echols I. Good close fight, but B-Hop is clearly superior.

Les Darcy? You haven't seen enough footage of that guy to make any kind of head to head prediction.

And of course you say Giardello, I wonder why... Joey would have needed to beat Georgie Benton for me to believe he beats B-Hop.

Anyways h2h aside, gotta rate B-Hop over most every body there based on accomplishments at the weight.

You're also pretty delusional if you think a 41+ year old man was better than he was in his prime.

Last edited by Obama; 09-30-2009 at 02:04 AM.
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