Bert Sugar Top 100 Fighters-THOUGHTS???

winky44 · 08:54 PM

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Wille Pep
4. Joe Louis
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Muhammad Ali
8. Roberto Duran
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Jack Johnson

11. Mickey Walker
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Gene Tunney
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Joe Gans
16. Sam Langford
17. Julio Cesar Chavez
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Stanley Ketchel
20 Barney Ross

21, Jimmy McLarnin
22. Archie Moore
23. Marcel Cerdan
24. Ezzard Charles
25. Sugar Ray Leonard
26. Joe Walcott (The original)
27. Jake LaMotta
28. Eder Jofre
29. Emile Griffith
30. Terry McGovern

31. George Foreman
32. Johnny Dundee
33. Jose Napoles
34. Pascual Perez
35. Billy Conn
36. Ruben Olivares
37. Joe Frazier
38. Tommy Loughran
39. Sandy Saddler
40. Kid Chocolate
41. Abe Attell
42. Evander Holyfield
43. George Dixon
44. Maxie Rosenbloom
45. Larry Holmes
46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
47. Marvin Hagler
48. Pernell Whitaker
49. Carlos Zarate
50. Thomas Hearns

51. Battling Nelson
52. Beau Jack
53. Ricardo ;Lopez
54. John L. Sullivan
55. Carlos Monzon
56. Alexis Arguello
57. Carmen Basillio
58. Pete Herman
59. Charley Burley
60. Ike Williams
61. Kid Gavilan
62. Jack Britton
63. Dick Tiger
64. Pancho Villa
65. Panama Al Brown
66. Bob Fitszimmons
67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
68. Tiger Flowers
69. James J.Corbett
70. Tony Zale

71. Tommy Ryan
72. Georges Carpentier
73, Sonny Liston
74. "Kid" McCoy
75. Bob Foster
76. Freddie Welsh
77. Joe Jeanette
78. Jim Driscoll
79. Jersey Joe Walcott
80. Peter Jackson
81. Ad Wolgast
82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
83. Manuel Ortiz
84. James J. Jeffries
85. Salvador Sanchez

86. Jimmy Barry
87. Carlos Ortiz
88. Roy Jones Jr.
89. Wilfredo Gomez
90. Aaron Pryor
91. Bernard Hopkins
92. Mike Gibbons
93. Jack Delaney
94. Johnny Kilbane
95. Willie Ritchie
96. Wilfredo Benitez
97. Packey McFarland
98. Rocky Graziano
99. Lew Jenkins
100. Mike Tyson

winky44 · 08:58 PM

Now post who you feel to low or to high, and who shound't be above who etc!

For me Bert has Sam Langford, Ray Leonard, Ezzard Charles, Evander Holyfield, Pernell Whitaker, Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello, Charley Burley, Ike Williams, Kid Gavilan, Sandy Saddler Bob Fitszimmons, Salvador Sanchez, Roy Jones Jr, Wilfredo Gomez, Aaron Pryor, Bernard Hopkins, Wilfredo Benitez and Mike Tyson to low and way to low.

And for me I think he may have the following to high Jack Dempsey,Jose Napoles, Billy Conn, Carlos Zarate, Tony Zale, Maxie Rosenbloom, and maybe Marcel Cerdan.

and for me bert shoundt of left out the following, felix trinidad, michael spinks, azumah nelson, maybe de la hoya, Eusebio Pedroza, maybe Antonio Cervantes and probs a few more!

Discuss on who you think is to low and who is to high and who bert missed out!

MissDeeCole

such an awful list, and the book that explains it is even worse. it way too heavily favors pre modern fighters.

winky44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissDeeCole

such an awful list, and the book that explains it is even worse. it way too heavily favors pre modern fighters.

you got the book? and you do you feel is to low and who is to high?

bklynboy · 09:11 PM

Yeah. I can't see Dempsey in the top 10. Nor can I see Tyson at 100. Tyson's self-destruction weighed way too heavy in Bert Sugar's mind. And as much I'm having trouble figuring out who I definitely would put above Dempsey I don't see how he did enough to be placed so high.

cotto16

He has monzon and whitaker far to low, were is felix trinindad and nassem hamed?

bklynboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotto16

He has monzon and whitaker far to low, were is felix trinindad and nassem hamed?

With all due respect I can't see Hamed in the top 100 and Felix Trinidad is not a sure thing. Trinidad was excellent but he is not a sure thing top 100 fighter. Where would you place him among Welterweights? Do you have him crack the top 10 all-time?

Southpaw16BF

Quote:

Originally Posted by bklynboy

With all due respect I can't see Hamed in the top 100 and Felix Trinidad is not a sure thing. Trinidad was excellent but he is not a sure thing top 100 fighter. Where would you place him among Welterweights? Do you have him crack the top 10 all-time?

To be honest I think Trinidad is more that worthy of a top 100 spot.

Resume Of Wins
Hector Camacho
Luis Ramon Campas (56-0)
Oba Carr (32-0)
Pernell Whitaker
Oscar De La Hoya (31-0)
David Reid (14-0)
Fernando Vargas (20-0)
Ricardo Mayorga

3 Weight Divsion World Champion
Made 15 defences of IBF Welterweight Title
Fought Virtually all the era's best.
Was Number #1 P4P Best Fighter In The World.
Unifed 147 and 154 Champion as well as a winning a Title at 160

bklynboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southpaw16bf

To be honest I think Trinidad is more that worthy of a top 100 spot.

Resume Of Wins
Hector Camacho
Luis Ramon Campas (56-0)
Oba Carr (32-0)
Pernell Whitaker
Oscar De La Hoya (31-0)
David Reid (14-0)
Fernando Vargas (20-0)
Ricardo Mayorga

3 Weight Divsion World Champion
Made 15 defences of IBF Welterweight Title
Fought Virtually all the era's best.
Was Number #1 P4P Best Fighter In The World.
Unifed 147 and 154 Champion as well as a winning a Title at 160

Yeah, I was refreshing my memory on boxrec but I think that once you get past the top 3-5 welterweights of all time the next 10 are close to each other. I was a Trinidad fan and rooted for him against de la Hoya. But, as an example, de la Hoya would have won that fight if he didn't run for the last three rounds. Again, I like Trinidad, but I'll pose the same question: where does he place among Welterweights?

The_Bringer

Bert is always very, very harsh on modern boxers. I think it's obvious that he prefers the earlier eras to the ones that followed.

I think he put Whitaker, Jones, Hopkins, Monzon, Sanchez and Lopez too low.

And I also think that Conn, Zale, Dempsey, Cerdan and Napoles are too high.

MissDeeCole Boxing Scene Queen Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New Jersey Age: 24 Posts: 2,042 Rep Power: 11 Points: 220,089.69 Bank: 241,127.97 Total Points: 461,217.66 Donate	such an awful list, and the book that explains it is even worse. it way too heavily favors pre modern fighters.

bklynboy Interim Champion Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 541 Rep Power: 7 Points: 20,462.64 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 20,462.64 Donate	Yeah. I can't see Dempsey in the top 10. Nor can I see Tyson at 100. Tyson's self-destruction weighed way too heavy in Bert Sugar's mind. And as much I'm having trouble figuring out who I definitely would put above Dempsey I don't see how he did enough to be placed so high. Last edited by bklynboy; 06-28-2009 at 09:11 PM. Reason: spelling

cotto16 Undisputed Champion Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,105 Rep Power: 10 Points: 1,334,348.54 Bank: 2,825.20 Total Points: 1,337,173.75 Donate	He has monzon and whitaker far to low, were is felix trinindad and nassem hamed?

The_Bringer F*ck Subtlety Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the obtuse and obscene Posts: 32,944 Rep Power: 325 Points: 1,016,290.27 Bank: 42,694,467,462,333.30 Total Points: 42,694,468,478,623.57 Donate	Bert is always very, very harsh on modern boxers. I think it's obvious that he prefers the earlier eras to the ones that followed. I think he put Whitaker, Jones, Hopkins, Monzon, Sanchez and Lopez too low. And I also think that Conn, Zale, Dempsey, Cerdan and Napoles are too high.