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#1
Old 06-22-2009, 11:29 AM
LondonRingRules
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Default The Time is Now: Who Could Handle Wlad in the Historical Pantheon?

Yes, it's time for all the Haters and the Lovers of Wlad to gather for a traditional dust up, so who can handle Wlad of the past 4 yrs?

Last time he took a good crack on the jaw was the Sanders fight that saw him crawl off the canvas 4x before the ref had seen enough. Brewster never landed much of anything their first fight, or second for that matter, that was a strange collapse of energy at the end of 4 rds. Maybe Peter got in one good shot to the jaw, but the rest were illegal rabbit punches in those curious wide swing for the rafters hooks Peter used to throw back when everyone was ducking him.

Byrd, Brock, Brewster, Austin, Iggy, Thompson, Rahman, Chagaev, 8-0, 7 KO in his current title run against champs and Ring ranked contenders. 5 of his last 10 fights were against undefeateds and he's barely having to unsheath his right hand to do it. Just 33 yrs of age this spring and already a 53-3, 47 KO career record and 14-2 title record, who could beat this version of Wlad.

For comparison, at the same age working back, Ali was champ for 3 of his 8 fights: (Lyle, Wepner, Foreman,) Frazier, Lubbers, Norton, Norton, Bugner and went 7-1, 3 KO, dropping the first Norton fight.

Let's hear it from the rafters and shout from the rooftops. I'll weigh in after a good outcry.........
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#2
Old 06-22-2009, 01:27 PM
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Wlad's been the only dominant heavy over the past 4 years...
Think the thread would be more interesting, if stated over the last 10 years...
Someone like McCall or Areola would be more than capable of upsetting him though....
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#3
Old 06-22-2009, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
Wlad's been the only dominant heavy over the past 4 years...
Think the thread would be more interesting, if stated over the last 10 years...
Someone like McCall or Areola would be more than capable of upsetting him though....
I'm pretty sure he means the Wlad of the last 4 years, so as to keep people from bringing up the Puritty fight from over a decade ago, as if Wlad was in his prime back then. Obviously Wlad has improved tremendously under the tutelage of Emanuel Steward, and while his style isn't as exciting as it used to be, he's definitely harder to beat. I think Liston, Foreman and Tyson would be the toughest match ups, with most others being far more competitive than a lot of people might think.
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#4
Old 06-22-2009, 05:33 PM
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tyson, foreman, frazier, ali, liston, holyfield all beat wlad
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#5
Old 06-22-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KostyaTszyu View Post
tyson, foreman, frazier, ali, liston, holyfield all beat wlad
i would put lewis, holmes, dempsey and vitali in there aswell.
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#6
Old 06-23-2009, 02:43 AM
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I think my post in the thread titled 'Who Can Handle Vitali in the Historical Pantheon?' is something I may use as my arguement for Dempsey beating Wlad.

Quote:
Dempsey has a good shot of beating Vitali. Dempsey was 6’1 and weighed close to 200lbs but under modern training methods and whatnot a guy of his size could make the 200lbs limit easily. Dempsey has a history of beating bigger men such as Jess Willard who measures a massive 6’6 and 1 half. He had incredible size for a man of his era, matches with his weight of almost 245lbs and you have a big guy here. Dempsey also sparred with Bill Tate who weighed, at best, in the mid 240lbs also entered the ring measuring 6’6 and 1 half. Dempsey seemed to find it easier to slay giants due to his tricky style of fighting. His bobbing and weaving and his granite chin allowed him to avoid shots coming in and land some heavy shots coming in. If he had to take shots then he proved throughout his career that his chin was more then adequate enough to take any.

Dempsey made a career of beating bigger guys. His most important win is against the massive Willard and in terms of Boxing history; his most significant win is against Firpo who himself was almost 6’3 in size. He also beat Carl Morris on numerous occasions (I’ll have to check up his record to see just how many times) as well as Fulton who, if memory serves me right, was 6’6 himself. Dempsey fought men who were incredibly large for his era and would still be considered large fighters. These are guys who could stand up against Vitali and only give away an inch in height and 3 or 4lbs in weight. Dempsey slayed them and sparred with big men like Bill Tate (who has fought the likes of Langford, Wills, Gunboat Smith, Norfolk, John L. Johnson, Jeanette and also holds victories over some of them. Not to mention Dempsey fought Andre Anderson (6’4) to a no decision but was awarded the decision by the local papers. I think historically speaking Dempsey handled big men well simply because his style allowed him to handle those bigger men. The bob and weave style was most effective against bigger fighters because the troubles they have with a constantly moving target and it enables Dempsey to get inside and work Vitali.

Stylistically speaking Dempsey had a come forward style that can cause problems to Vitali. Dempsey could bang with both fists, is among the best body workers in Heavyweight history, had a granite chin and was a rugged fighter.
The Dempsey roll will evade that powerful jab that Wlad throws and once Dempsey gets under he can do the damage from the inside. Wlad doesn't possess the chin his older brother Vitali does so I think Dempsey knocks him out inside 6.
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#7
Old 06-23-2009, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Jeffries View Post
I'm pretty sure he means the Wlad of the last 4 years, so as to keep people from bringing up the Puritty fight from over a decade ago, as if Wlad was in his prime back then. Obviously Wlad has improved tremendously under the tutelage of Emanuel Steward, and while his style isn't as exciting as it used to be, he's definitely harder to beat. I think Liston, Foreman and Tyson would be the toughest match ups, with most others being far more competitive than a lot of people might think.
I may have misinterpretated the question, as I've only mentioned the possibilities of 2 current fighters....
As of all time.... Wlad has improved his stamina/defence mechanism immensely over the last few years.. Hence the reason, I wouldn't dream of mentioning the Purity fight..
All great fighters have a bad day at the office..
After watching his most recent defense.. I'd say he's too fast/mobile for Liston, as well as bigger... I think Wlad TKO's Liston around the 10th.. Foreman and Tyson would do the same to Wlad though... Others (in their prime) I'd (confidently) pick to beat Wlad are... Lewis, Holmes, Ali, Louis...
50/50 fights would have to include.... Tua, Norton, Johnson, Marciano, Frazier, Dempsey & (If only he used his right hand) Gerry Cooney....
Had to end with a bit of controversy.... Will start a new thread soon!!!
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#8
Old 06-23-2009, 07:43 PM
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I'd bet the farm on Tyson, Frazier, Vitali and Foreman starching Wlad within 6 rounds each.

Others whom I think would beat him in a 12-15 rounder, but wouldn't bet as much on are Lewis, Holmes, and Holyfield.

I wouldn't make a pick in Wlad/Ali because despite Muhammad's advantages in speed, and ring smarts, Wlad's size alone more than makes up that difference.

Liston, ehh....He was a great fighter when he was on, but his connections to the mob, and shady accusations of "throwing" certain fights wouldn't allow me to bet a dime on him.

Dempsey is a possibility. He has a good record against the giants of his time (namely Fulton, and Willard), but Fulton and Willard weren't exactly notorious for their agile movements and blinding speed. I think Jack would be game, and make a good go of it. It could go either way but I'd bet that after a grueling fight, Wlad would chop him down in the 7th or 8th. (Of course you could argue that Wlad has never seen a grueling fight, either....)

Dempsey's just never seen size and skill on par with Wlad before.

Holyfield would have a good chance at outpointing him as well, but his record in title fights leaves something to be desired and as the saying goes ; "Those who do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it.". Therefore I wouldn't wager much on Evander, either.
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#9
Old 06-24-2009, 01:13 AM
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Larry Holmes. His arms were longer than pool cues so Wlad wouldn't be able to keep him at bay with the jab. That fight would probably end in a 4th round KO. There are about a dozen others but Holmes would have the easiest work with him. I can even see someone with Razor Ruddick's power and chin giving Wlad fits...
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#10
Old 06-24-2009, 06:47 AM
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Holmes, Frazier and Ali would be my best bets. Maybe Foreman too.
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