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#11
Old 05-22-2009, 02:13 PM
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Isnt Denmark socialist? They seem ok to me
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#12
Old 05-22-2009, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc1496 View Post
You can be some one's sheep to be herded and told what to do and what to receive. As for me, I like working for what I get and having the freedom to accumulate as much wealth as I possibly can.

Fuk Socialism......

Even though I think there can be "socialized" programs to help people in need and not necessarily compromise the capitalistic system we live in and benefit from.
Yet you voted for Obama. Oh the irony...
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#13
Old 05-22-2009, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
The trouble with socialism is that it is tremendously expensive to implement and by its nature it stifles fiscal creativity so it is left with insufficient financial means to pay for it.
Its an experiment that has been done many times in classrooms around the world.

The teacher informs everyone that they will receive the average grade for the class no matter how well they do, and the class average rapid falls into the failing range.

People stop trying because they assume they don't have to work to receive the rewards.

That is why socialism will never work in todays society.

Socialism might become practical when we are sufficiently advanced to automate all the means of production, but as long as people are required to be productive for society to prosper, socialism will fail.
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#14
Old 05-22-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !! Shawn View Post
Its an experiment that has been done many times in classrooms around the world.

The teacher informs everyone that they will receive the average grade for the class no matter how well they do, and the class average rapid falls into the failing range.

People stop trying because they assume they don't have to work to receive the rewards.

That is why socialism will never work in todays society.

Socialism might become practical when we are sufficiently advanced to automate all the means of production, but as long as people are required to be productive for society to prosper, socialism will fail.
No. Under socialism the incentive is different. The incentive to come up with more efficient ways to do things is that we'd have to work less time to do the same amount of work, which means, more free time, vacation, more time for research, etc. "The amount of NECESSARY labor needed to produce the things we NEED."

Under capitalism, the ruling class does everything they can to effect the way we think. Through media, education, religion, etc. we are raised with values of a capitalist system, which is that 'dog eat dog', 'every man for himself' "bling bling" mentality. This isn't human nature, this is something we have been conditioned to think. Or in Marx's explanation - a form of false consciousness.

This kind of mentality doesn't benefit the common man...only the very rich.

This mentality would slowly go away under socialism. Since conditions determine consciousness, new generations would see the world entirely different. Think about when a baby is born. It does not know about race, violence, sexual harassment, being materialistic, greed, etc. it only learns about these things when they are passed down by society.

But in reality self-interest remains under socialism. Workers will form a class consciousness by understanding where their true self-interest lay. The bourgeoisie on the other hand have a self-interest under capitalism, in this case a class interest in controlling the class consciousness of the workers - shoring up the false consciousness of the workers that their self-interest lay with the promotion of the class system (remember the old slogan that what's good for GM is good for America--nationalism is a good tool for propping up false consciousness as is religion).
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#15
Old 05-22-2009, 05:02 PM
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Political correctness and far-left busy bodies ruin the good that Socialism has.
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#16
Old 05-22-2009, 05:26 PM
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Denmark, Sweeden and France are all so called Socialist countries and the people there are healthier, better off, and the economy in those countries is a helluva lot better than the U.S...
Everybody in the US deserves free healthcare, what in the **** do we pay taxes for?
People in Government Senators, congress all have access to free healthcare, so the people that vote them in there can't go to a doctor if they get sick???
WHAT THE ****???
Even Canada a way better country than the USA takes better care of it's people than the ****ed up USA...
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#17
Old 05-22-2009, 05:39 PM
!! Shawn
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
No. Under socialism the incentive is different. The incentive to come up with more efficient ways to do things is that we'd have to work less time to do the same amount of work, which means, more free time, vacation, more time for research, etc. "The amount of NECESSARY labor needed to produce the things we NEED."

Under capitalism, the ruling class does everything they can to effect the way we think. Through media, education, religion, etc. we are raised with values of a capitalist system, which is that 'dog eat dog', 'every man for himself' "bling bling" mentality. This isn't human nature, this is something we have been conditioned to think. Or in Marx's explanation - a form of false consciousness.

This kind of mentality doesn't benefit the common man...only the very rich.

This mentality would slowly go away under socialism. Since conditions determine consciousness, new generations would see the world entirely different. Think about when a baby is born. It does not know about race, violence, sexual harassment, being materialistic, greed, etc. it only learns about these things when they are passed down by society.

But in reality self-interest remains under socialism. Workers will form a class consciousness by understanding where their true self-interest lay. The bourgeoisie on the other hand have a self-interest under capitalism, in this case a class interest in controlling the class consciousness of the workers - shoring up the false consciousness of the workers that their self-interest lay with the promotion of the class system (remember the old slogan that what's good for GM is good for America--nationalism is a good tool for propping up false consciousness as is religion).
You completely ignored what I said, and spewed your own rhetoric.

Socialism doesn't work because

#1 - People will not work hard if the reward for hard work is the same as the reward for no work.

#2 - See #1

Last edited by !! Shawn; 05-22-2009 at 05:41 PM..
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#18
Old 05-22-2009, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc1496 View Post
You can be some one's sheep to be herded and told what to do and what to receive. As for me, I like working for what I get and having the freedom to accumulate as much wealth as I possibly can.

Fuk Socialism......

Even though I think there can be "socialized" programs to help people in need and not necessarily compromise the capitalistic system we live in and benefit from.
We're all sheep to some degree.
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#19
Old 05-22-2009, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
uuugghhhhh Cuba has faced fierce economic and trade embargo's from the very beggining, that alone has restricted the growth of their nation severely.

Further, Cuba was always a very poor country even before the revolution, with very little resources. In order for them to fully grow they need assistance from their allies. The collapse of the Soviet Union was a big blow, as they relied heavily on them for support and to trade their resources such as sugar.

Besides all of those huge obstacles, Cuba for the most part has been very successful, one of the ONLY latin american countries where the standard of living has improved over the last 50 years (the vast majority of latin america the standard of living has dropped dramatically due to free trade, capitalism, exploitation by rich wealthy countries (mainly the US), restrictions on growth to do the IMF & World Bank, etc.). Cuba has free healthcare, free education (all the way to college level), more doctors per capita than any nation on the planet, free housing and virtually zero homeless people, the lowest level of HIV infected per capita, etc. etc. etc.
Cuba was about to prosper had it not been for the revolution. The mob was going to take it over and make tons of money for themselves and the Cubans.

Second, if you really believe the standard of living has improved then why are they driving cars from the 1950's????? All of the good hospitals go to the elitists, do you really believe that EVERYBODY gets a fair piece of the pie? Really, all socialism in Cuba proves is: Socialism doesn't spread the wealth, it spreads the misery.

The easiest example of why socialism must fail is the DMV system in America. If you want that type of institution to spread to healthcare, and other forms of productions, you need mental help.
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#20
Old 05-22-2009, 06:54 PM
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Funny how Cubans have a longer lifespan than AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!! LOL...
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