The New Saga: the Battle Towards Boxing Immortality

[ThunderWolf]

By Juan Angel Zurita (May 14, 2009)

----------------------------PART I

- I know I may sound like a hater when it comes to Floyd Mayweather Jr., but let me make a few things clear.

I recognize he’s a great fighter. I simply want to see how great he really is. I feel that his most ardent fans unjustifiably overrate him while overlooking the facts.

For starters, I don’t believe he’s comparable to all-time greats like Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Roberto Duran. At the moment, I don’t even believe he’s comparable to Julio Cesar Chavez, Thomas Hearns, and Alexis Arguello. These fighters grabbed the multiple titles too while defeating very good to great opponents consistently in original eight weight classes. Mayweather hasn’t always done that in the divisions he’s temporarily parked his Rolls Royce at.

Note: It’s my personal opinion that one of the most objective ways to compare today’s great fighters to the greats of yesteryear is to compare how the “New School” greats have faired in the original eight weight classes. You see, the “Old Schoolers” didn’t have the luxury of fighting for multiple titles in these “in-between” divisions. This is why today’s fighter’s accomplishments must accurately be put into perspective. Don’t get me wrong. I do believe some of the non-original eight weight classes have built up quality history in their own right. However, while success in these divisions should be factored into the equation, I believe the emphasis still needs to be placed on the original eight weight classes. This allows us to say for example compare how Pacquiao’s accomplishments stack up against Duran’s.

In Mayweather, I’d like to see the true caliber of his greatness. He’s faired ‘Ok’ in two original eight weight classes (lightweight and welterweight), but his two fights against Castillo at lightweight left a lot to be desired. They revealed a good amount of information as to how he would’ve faired against established lightweight modern day greats like Duran, Chavez, and Whittaker.

As far as his welterweight venture (2nd original weight class he decided to tackle) was concerned, he did not take on the best fighters in the division during that time. At junior welterweight, he chilled against subpar opposition while the English Polar Bear devoured the Russian Bear in his hometown with the ref aiding him on. His defining moment in this division was facing a past prime overrated fighter that had no business facing world class fighters at 140.

Finally, at welterweight, he didn’t fight the top welterweights. Instead, he faced off against mediocre opposition which could be sold to the public as a series of historically meaningful fights. In reality, instead of selling himself off as the Undisputed Welterweight Champion, he should’ve actually stepped up and proven it against the top welterweights of that time. No, the top names were not Mitchell, Judah and Baldomir. The top names were Mosley, Margarito, Williams, Cotto, and Cintron.

When we break down what all of this means, it means that Mayweather is a great fighter that has been successful in two original eight weight classes while not always facing the best fighters in and around those weight classes, particularly at welterweight.

Therefore, I opine that in terms of all-time greatness, he’s right there with Marquez. No, that wasn’t a typo. I’m talking about Juan Manuel Marquez. I’ll explain why in a minute.

Before we dive into that discussion, let’s discuss Pacquiao.

Pacquiao has gone from 112-147, while facing much better opposition than both fighters. During that span, he has had proven success in 4 original eight weight classes (flyweight, featherweight, lightweight, welterweight).

Now in all fairness, like Mayweather, Pacquiao’s accomplishments are open to criticism.

For example, Pacquiao didn’t prove himself to be a ‘great’ flyweight. In fact, he suffered his only two knockout losses in that weight class.

At featherweight, yes, he did impressively destroy the great Mexican Legend, Marco Antonio Barrera, but when he faced Marquez, another Mexican Legend, despite dropping him three times in the opening stanza, he couldn’t put him away. Marquez charged back to make it a debatable brawl, which to this day is still debated among hardcore boxing fanatics across the net. Nevermind who you think deserved to win that fight, we can all agree that it was a classic fight between two of the greatest featherweight fighters of our generation.

[ThunderWolf]

----------------------------PART II

Fast-forward to super featherweight and we find these two facing off once again four years later. This time it’s much of the same. Pacquiao’s power vs Marquez’s superior counter-punching skills.
Flip another coin and take your pick.

We waited four more years to settle the seemingly never-ending debate and in turn we’re given another never-ending debate which is being argued on boxing message boards across the net right now, along with Pacquiao/Marquez 1.

Despite the demand to see a third and final fight, Bob Arum next decided to steer Pacquiao toward lightweight dominance, and matched him up against David Diaz, the weakest title holder of the bunch. No brainer. Pacquiao passed with flying colors and with that earned success in his third original eight weight class.

Next, we see Pacquiao batter a weight-drained De La Hoya at welterweight, a weight class De La Hadn’t fought at in ages. With that victory, he earned success at welterweight, his fourth original eight weight class.

In his most recent fight, he scored a scintillating knockout over Ricky Hatton, a good champion fighting in his optimal weight class who was simply tailor made for Pacquiao.

Meanwhile, Marquez, the fighter whom has troubled Pacquiao the most, a fighter whom many believe won both fights, made some history of his own when he became the first man to knockout the top two proven lightweights around in Juan Diaz, and future hall of famer, Joel Casamayor. With this newfound “lightweight” success, Marquez became a proven champion in two original eight weight classes. By doing so, he tied Floyd Mayweather Jr. (lightweight, welterweight) with (featherweight, lightweight). However, these two fall short to Pacquiao’s (flyweight, featherweight, lightweight, welterweight).

Now if we look closely at Marquez’s accomplishments, they too can be diminished.

Marquez detractors argue that he wasted most of his “key” prime featherweight years facing nobodies until he finally got his shot against Pacquiao. Marquez was dropped three times in the first and although he battled back courageously, he only drew with Pacquiao because of a judge’s scorecard error. Marquez was then given another opportunity at Pacquiao, but again failed to convincingly separate himself from the ‘Pac Monster.’ He followed that up by defeating a shot Barrera, shot Casamayor, and the light-punching, inexperienced, Juan Diaz.

Do you see how easy it is to diminish each of their accomplishments?

Therefore, whose perception is the most accurate? How great are these guys? How do they rate historically when stacked up against one another?

The truth lies somewhere in the middle, and at the moment, their positions in boxing history have yet to be etched in stone because they’re still actively fighting today.

As boxing fans, we tend to overrate those we adore and underrate those that rub us the wrong way for one reason or another. We’re all guilty of it.

Simply put, the quality of each fighter’s greatness rests on our subjective interpretations of what they’ve each accomplished. As we’ve seen, anyone’s resume can be picked apart.

So how do we figure out this mess?

First off, as I’ve already mentioned, we need to focus on their success in the original eight weight classes. Secondly, without question, we must focus on the quality of their opposition. Thirdly, we must assess intangibles such as Pacquiao’s claim to being the only fighter in boxing history to have success from 112-147, Marquez’s ability to tame (if you think Pacquiao is a legend, what does that say about Marquez?) the ‘Great Beast,’ Marquez’s ability to remain at such a high level although he’s been clearly fighting past his prime for several years now, Mayweather’s success from 130-154 while remaining “officially” undefeated, etc.

Wouldn’t it just be easier if they fought so we can get a better clue and sort this out?

Thus, the round robbin begins with Mayweather/Marquez on July 18.

Now some will argue that Mayweather defeating Marquez and Pacquiao will only prove that he can defeat “great” little guys.

Is this true?

Again, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but let’s state a few truths.

These aren’t just any little guys. These are two fellow greats who’ve proven they’re world class in the two original eight weight classes (featherweight, lightweight) right below welterweight.

And honestly, Mayweather has never truly proven he’s a top welterweight.

Perhaps he’s really a great 135-140 lber that took a stab at welterweight and bailed when he figured out the best guys were much too big and strong for his defense to overcome. If this was truly the case as many Mayweather fans claim, I wish they’d stop exclaiming that ‘Money’ would’ve beaten Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, Cintron, and Williams, based how he faired against Judah, Baldomir, and De La Hoya. It’s clearly unwarranted.

In Pacquiao’s case, his star is shining so bright right now that many think he’s currently world class at welterweight, although like Mayeather, he’s yet to defeat a top fighter in that weight class himself.

If one considers Mayweather a junior welterweight-welterweight, is it then really that outlandish for the best featherweight/lightweight combo to come around in awhile to face him?

A lot of the old timers tried to do the unthinkable. Why not Pacquiao and Marquez?

This is where it gets fun.

We will soon be provided with more answers to these questions. We will soon learn how these three greats stack up against one another historically, and when it’s all said and done, we’ll finally learn how they stack up against boxing’s all-time greats.

It’s going to be a wild ride these next few years. Each has the opportunity to elevate himself to a higher level from where they currently stand today.

Let the chips fall where they may.

[sammiza567]

no....just no