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#21
Old 04-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Benny Leonard
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Originally Posted by Special K View Post
Tyson's so called peak , 86-88, was when B class fighters were challenging him. When Lennox Lewis and Holyfield popped up he was exposed. And personally, I refuse to believe any HW's prime is between 18 and 21. He cleaned up a bad/lousy era and was then found out.
We lable it "prime/peak" because we have to now. That is when he was at his best. Actually, it was from Berbick to Spinks. He wasn't at his best before because he was still improving and even from Berbick to Spinks he continued to improve. Once he got rid of Rooney, he went down hill, which is why people say Mike was no longer in his prime. Many back this up. Hell, even Tyson backed this up with his "This wasn't no Tyson of vintage" line after he beat Bruno the first time.

It's not about age as it is what a person is showing.

Simple question:

Can any version of Tyson post Rooney beat Tyson when he was trained under Rooney from Berbick to Spinks?

That will answer your question.


The sad part is, like Ali, we may have never seen his true prime because he failed to reach it based on "age." But Tyson had more to do with his failings than Ali.


What we don't know is how would a trained Tyson at his peak have handled the likes of Holyfield and Lewis. But it was clearly a different fighter.

Last edited by Benny Leonard; 04-23-2009 at 04:22 PM.
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#22
Old 04-23-2009, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Boxing Fiend View Post
The decline of boxing?

Heavyweights to scared to mix it up?

I want answers!
It would be very hard to find another Mike Tyson...
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#23
Old 04-23-2009, 04:39 PM
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There is only one mike tyson..David haye is explosive like tyson though
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#24
Old 04-23-2009, 04:45 PM
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ibeabuchi..
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#25
Old 04-23-2009, 04:58 PM
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American HW boxing is dead I think forever. There is no place for them in boxing. Why should a powerful, big, young black man (and not just a black man, but any man) with all the physical attributes needed ever think about boxing?

From a personal gain standpoint. The draft is coming up this weekend for the NFL. All signs point to Quarterback Matthew Stanford being the #1 pick, he'll make 30 million GUARANTEED, + incentives, +a 5-6 year contract pulling in 7-10 Million a year.

To put that in perspective...it took Floyd Mayweather 10 years in the ring to land the big Oscar event to make about 15-30 million for that lone fight with Oscar. 10 years of punishment to go from bottom to top. A top level football player naturally is playing football their whole life, but your goal is to get drafted for the payday, then your career goes from there.

The #2 player drafted will probably be a Lineman, so a black 6'6, 315 pound man conditioned himself to be a lineman and will make probably about 10-12% less than Matthew Stanford, but still...it's nearly guaranteed. The fame associated with Football far outweight boxing, unless your Oscar De La Hoya.

Either way, an elite college/nfl star will make what a 1000 boxers make in their lifetime. (guestimate of course, it's probably a larger ratio). Even if say Matthew Stanford never throws a pass after that bonus is issued out...he's set for life. I sometimes loathe when fans say boxers are greedy. Their lifespan is short and the money isn't long for them like it is in the NBA/NFL/MLB; they have to get what they can. It's why I support the notion of a true boxing league and truly reform the sport.

Mike Tyson pt 2 is definitely out there, but he's in the NFL.
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#26
Old 04-23-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JmH Reborn View Post
American HW boxing is dead I think forever. There is no place for them in boxing. Why should a powerful, big, young black man (and not just a black man, but any man) with all the physical attributes needed ever think about boxing?

From a personal gain standpoint. The draft is coming up this weekend for the NFL. All signs point to Quarterback Matthew Stanford being the #1 pick, he'll make 30 million GUARANTEED, + incentives, +a 5-6 year contract pulling in 7-10 Million a year.

To put that in perspective...it took Floyd Mayweather 10 years in the ring to land the big Oscar event to make about 15-30 million for that lone fight with Oscar. 10 years of punishment to go from bottom to top. A top level football player naturally is playing football their whole life, but your goal is to get drafted for the payday, then your career goes from there.

The #2 player drafted will probably be a Lineman, so a black 6'6, 315 pound man conditioned himself to be a lineman and will make probably about 10-12% less than Matthew Stanford, but still...it's nearly guaranteed. The fame associated with Football far outweight boxing, unless your Oscar De La Hoya.

Either way, an elite college/nfl star will make what a 1000 boxers make in their lifetime. (guestimate of course, it's probably a larger ratio). Even if say Matthew Stanford never throws a pass after that bonus is issued out...he's set for life. I sometimes loathe when fans say boxers are greedy. Their lifespan is short and the money isn't long for them like it is in the NBA/NFL/MLB; they have to get what they can. It's why I support the notion of a true boxing league and truly reform the sport.

Mike Tyson pt 2 is definitely out there, but he's in the NFL.
Your points are logical, but you took the "human factor" out of the equation and that is; Some athletes regardless of their size and build are not into football, their hearts are set on boxing.....simplistic yet true.
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#27
Old 04-23-2009, 05:11 PM
JmH Reborn
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Originally Posted by Spray_resistant View Post
Your points are logical, but you took the "human factor" out of the equation and that is; Some athletes regardless of their size and build are not into football, their hearts are set on boxing.....simplistic yet true.
I think if that was the case then we'd be back dominating the Cruiser/Heavyweight divisions again instead of having the Klits bros reign supreme.

The better athletes are from America, especially in the HW category. But all too often...their brought in to play basketball or football for the instant fame associated with it.

Take the Eagles backup left tackle Winston Justice...he's a scrub in the NFL level. He got exposed...growing up and while in college, he boxed. Loves the sport. Scouts saw him as a physical specimen and they talked him into football. He went to USC, was a really decent lineman and considered the best in football at the time. He was just physically superior to everyone. He didn't translate well to the NFL, but he changed his sport from the one he loved due to the money. He sits the bench and will be a nobody in the NFL; but makes way more money than all boxers that aren't elite.
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#28
Old 04-23-2009, 05:18 PM
Special K
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As if Tyson would ever have been an American footballer, no fking chance. Anybody can be an American footballer, just take the steroids. You see them sucking oxygen like a heart attack patient after one play, lol!
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#29
Old 04-23-2009, 07:11 PM
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David Tua was the closest we ever to a Mike Tyson-like fighter and he could of accomplished a lot more then Tyson, but started slipping after he lost to Lewis.

My concern isn't if we get a next Mike Tyson, but the next dominant American heavyweight.
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#30
Old 04-23-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Boat Buyer View Post
There is another Mike Tyson........

The only problem is that hes 80 pounds lighter.

Edwin Valero.
Gimme a fuckin break. At least Tyson could box and had great skills early on - all Valero does is swing his arms wildly in the hope of something landing. Worst style I've ever seen.
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