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#1
Old 04-19-2009, 04:13 PM
-Blackout-
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Default Muhammad Ali saying Jack Dempsey is a joke yet Marciano would be a threat?

In the first clip Ali speaks about Jack Dempsey, making fun of the old school brawler type of fighting saying he would beat that guy up


In this next clip Ali on the other hand says a little brawler like Rocky Marciano would be the most trouble because he was a brawler and you could never predict where the punches came from..


Ali contradict himself.. What's your take on it? Is Dempsey and Marciano a threat? Is Marciano a bigger threat than Dempsey to Ali? Ali did have trouble fighting a rough slugger/hookmaster like Frazier is it fair to compare him to Marciano and Dempsey..?
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#2
Old 04-19-2009, 07:11 PM
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Maybe he just changed his opinion as times passed

Marciano would be tough because he had a very low stance, and Ali didn`t like such stance... It was one of the reasons why he considered Frazier his toughest opponent...

But, come on, enough of it When we talk about Marciano we talk about the guy who`s usual weight was about 185lbs... so he hardly would fight Ali in later era...
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#3
Old 04-19-2009, 09:36 PM
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Ali would seriously **** them both up, as they stood there, like statues, trying to catch him as he comes in but finding that thier skills are woefully inadiquate. Seriously those real early heavies are over-rated, Ali onwards is a different ball game.
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#4
Old 04-19-2009, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Infern0 View Post
Ali would seriously **** them both up, as they stood there, like statues, trying to catch him as he comes in but finding that thier skills are woefully inadiquate. Seriously those real early heavies are over-rated, Ali onwards is a different ball game.
Ali had trouble with worse fighters. Dempsey and Marciano shouldn't be counted out although I wouldn't favour them against Ali by any means.

Henry Cooper walked straight forward with little speed and threw a predictable left hook over and over yet he was able to give Ali a lot of trouble in their two fights. Chuvalo was slower than Marciano and Dempsey in slow motion yet he gave Ali two of his toughest fights. This was Ali in his prime too, not the 70's version.

Dempsey had faster feet, a better chin, better head movement and better two fisted punching power than Cooper did. He has enough tools to trouble Ali.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Blackout- View Post
In the first clip Ali speaks about Jack Dempsey, making fun of the old school brawler type of fighting saying he would beat that guy up


In this next clip Ali on the other hand says a little brawler like Rocky Marciano would be the most trouble because he was a brawler and you could never predict where the punches came from..


Ali contradict himself.. What's your take on it? Is Dempsey and Marciano a threat? Is Marciano a bigger threat than Dempsey to Ali? Ali did have trouble fighting a rough slugger/hookmaster like Frazier is it fair to compare him to Marciano and Dempsey..?
Marciano was more recent and Ali was raised in a culture that revered him. You get the sense that he really didn't know alot about Dempsey though from the clip.

I see Dempsey as the more challenging of the two, being quicker and attacking at a far more frenzied pace. He would be a smaller but faster Joe Frazier with enough power to trouble Ali (though not quite power on Joe's level) and two good arms instead of one like Joe.

Last edited by res; 04-19-2009 at 09:56 PM.
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#6
Old 04-19-2009, 10:02 PM
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Er... Their two completely different people. So how is he contradicting himself..?
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#7
Old 04-19-2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TheManchine View Post
Ali had trouble with worse fighters. Dempsey and Marciano shouldn't be counted out although I wouldn't favour them against Ali by any means.

Henry Cooper walked straight forward with little speed and threw a predictable left hook over and over yet he was able to give Ali a lot of trouble in their two fights. Chuvalo was slower than Marciano and Dempsey in slow motion yet he gave Ali two of his toughest fights. This was Ali in his prime too, not the 70's version.

Dempsey had faster feet, a better chin, better head movement and better two fisted punching power than Cooper did. He has enough tools to trouble Ali.
I was at the 2nd Ali Cooper fight, Henry didn't really give him too much trouble that time. My biggest memory was when Ali cut Cooper 50,000 groaning as one. Cooper certainly caught him in the 1st tho. Chuvalo not to split hairs fought Ali either side of the ban I believe, think he was the only fighter to do so.
Agree re Dempsey and Marciano,think a lot of people don't seem to get(in the short time I have been here)is that these old timers were great fighters. They were used to adapting and overcoming problems.I think that Ali would have had to much for them both but I could certainly see Dempsey winning 1 out of 10 for sure and Marciano 2/3 out of 10.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GJC View Post
I was at the 2nd Ali Cooper fight, Henry didn't really give him too much trouble that time. My biggest memory was when Ali cut Cooper 50,000 groaning as one. Cooper certainly caught him in the 1st tho. Chuvalo not to split hairs fought Ali either side of the ban I believe, think he was the only fighter to do so.
Agree re Dempsey and Marciano,think a lot of people don't seem to get(in the short time I have been here)is that these old timers were great fighters. They were used to adapting and overcoming problems.I think that Ali would have had to much for them both but I could certainly see Dempsey winning 1 out of 10 for sure and Marciano 2/3 out of 10.
I thought Ali looked quite uninspiring against Cooper the second time. Cooper didn't have much going but neither did Ali. Cooper would have probably lasted a lot longer if not for his tendency to cut.

It's just not reasonable to expect Ali to "kill" Dempsey and Marciano. He wasn't much of a "killer" in the ring.
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#9
Old 04-19-2009, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GJC View Post
I was at the 2nd Ali Cooper fight, Henry didn't really give him too much trouble that time. My biggest memory was when Ali cut Cooper 50,000 groaning as one. Cooper certainly caught him in the 1st tho. Chuvalo not to split hairs fought Ali either side of the ban I believe, think he was the only fighter to do so.
Agree re Dempsey and Marciano,think a lot of people don't seem to get(in the short time I have been here)is that these old timers were great fighters. They were used to adapting and overcoming problems.I think that Ali would have had to much for them both but I could certainly see Dempsey winning 1 out of 10 for sure and Marciano 2/3 out of 10.
Ali was the best heavyweight in my opinion but even pre ban he did have weaknesses. Great fighters identify and exploit weaknesses. Johnson, Dempsey etc had the skills that at their peak and in their era made them the best. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that taking advantage of the benefits of the modern era they would not improve and be a force. I'm not saying they would beat Ali but he isn't going to humiliate them.
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#10
Old 04-19-2009, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManchine View Post
I thought Ali looked quite uninspiring against Cooper the second time. Cooper didn't have much going but neither did Ali. Cooper would have probably lasted a lot longer if not for his tendency to cut.

It's just not reasonable to expect Ali to "kill" Dempsey and Marciano. He wasn't much of a "killer" in the ring.
Ali actually weighed 200 lbs for the rematch against Cooper.
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