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#1
Old 04-18-2009, 09:09 AM
kayjay
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Default HBO's new Thrilla in Manilla documentary

I didn't think I wanted to watch another special on this fight, but this one tells the story just how I wanted to hear it. They make Joe the star, and Ali comes off as the world's biggest prick. There's an interview with him after he spoke at a Klan rally, comments on his womanizing, and his political hypocrisy. At no point do the filmmakers attempt to qualify this with a sympathetic twist.

It's impossible not to make Joe look unreasonable in his grudge, but the purpose here seems to be to try to understand it. Joe watches the fight for the first time, and we get to see his reactions. Absolutely priceless.


They also portray the boxing more in Joe's favor. They make no suggestion that the first fight was ever close, with terrific footage of left hooks to the jaw, and they only show the side-angle that makes the 11th rd "slip" look a legit knockdown. The second fight they gloss over by criticizing the ref, and they focus on how Joe dominated rds 5-11 of Manilla, how after that he couldn't see due to an injury from 1964, and how Ali and not Joe wanted to quit after 14.

Late last night I mentioned at a party that I had watched this, and some old ***** rambled on about how poorly Ali was treated by the government and media. She even called Joe a "stupid puncher." She was about to taste a left hook too when the woman I brought with me grabbed me and asked me to take her home.
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#2
Old 04-18-2009, 11:58 AM
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Actually mate, in the scheme of things it makes Joe look like the biggest scumbag NOW, and Ali back then. I mean, the only way Joe would be satisfied now is if Ali dies. The docu shows him bragging about Ali's current condition. And I tell you, for one lad that hasn't ever murdered, raped etc him or any of his loved ones, you should not be this bitter after all these years and apologies.

And this is not good for Boxing making the biggest star of them all the bad guy. There is not a bigger ambassador for boxing than him.
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#3
Old 04-18-2009, 03:11 PM
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I watched the documentary and a few things stood out, Joe has thin skin, real thin,and Ali was full of sh1t. Ali, before the 1st fight said if Frazier won that he would crawl on his hands and knees over to Joe look up and call him the best or something like that.It never happened.This film was totally biased for Frazier and as a fan of Frazier of course I liked it.He needs to let the past go, enough already. Frazier was asked at the end of the film if he thought he won the Thrilla and his answer was "The proof is in the pudding".Yea its funny for a split second untill you realize he's talking about Ali's brain.
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:44 PM
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You might like the book Ghosts of Manilla. The writer really disliked Ali and thought Frazier was a great guy.

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biogr...738439-6062111
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:10 PM
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The Klan rally speech was news to me, I hadn't heard about that before.

I had heard many Ali stories before, so the movie didn't change my opinion of Ali. He had his good traits and bad traits. The movie was fairly balanced because it also shows Frazier take a perverse pride in helping make Ali brain-damaged (and Frazier himself doesn't appear to be in the best of health either).

Actually, the person whom I thought came across as an azzhole was Ferdie Pacheco. I always thought of him as an egotistical, terrible commentator. Now I think of him as an egotistical, terrible commentator, and an azzhole.
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Old 04-19-2009, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thread Stealer View Post
The Klan rally speech was news to me, I hadn't heard about that before.

I had heard many Ali stories before, so the movie didn't change my opinion of Ali. He had his good traits and bad traits. The movie was fairly balanced because it also shows Frazier take a perverse pride in helping make Ali brain-damaged (and Frazier himself doesn't appear to be in the best of health either).

Actually, the person whom I thought came across as an azzhole was Ferdie Pacheco. I always thought of him as an egotistical, terrible commentator. Now I think of him as an egotistical, terrible commentator, and an azzhole.
I agree. What did the stuttering cunt say in the docu?
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:25 AM
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I doubt I'll ever truly understand the relationship between Ali and Frazier.

Ali and Frazier were supposed to be great friends in the late 1960's with Frazier helping Ali out yet you can find interviews from around that time with the two fighters throwing insults at each other.

For example:


1969

You can also find recent interviews with Frazier claiming that he is not bitter anymore and that he wishes Ali well. The next day he'll say that he won all three fights because Ali has Parkinson's...







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#8
Old 04-19-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManchine View Post
I doubt I'll ever truly understand the relationship between Ali and Frazier.

Ali and Frazier were supposed to be great friends in the late 1960's with Frazier helping Ali out yet you can find interviews from around that time with the two fighters throwing insults at each other.

For example:


1969

You can also find recent interviews with Frazier claiming that he is not bitter anymore and that he wishes Ali well. The next day he'll say that he won all three fights because Ali has Parkinson's...







Never saw the first one, great - great footage!
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#9
Old 04-19-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimey Limey View Post
I agree. What did the stuttering cunt say in the docu?
The interviewer said "Manila is an unusual place for a heavyweight championship fight" and Pacheco basically replied with (paraphrased) "are you ****ing stupid?"

In regards to Frazier fighting with one eye for much of his career, he said something like "it shows you show sick boxing is and how brave and dumb Frazier is. I don't want to be mean to Frazier, but he was very dumb".
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