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#1
Old 04-16-2009, 02:04 AM
Hawk O'Connor
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Default Ali's Broken Jaw

I don't know about anyone else..but this is one part of the Ali lore that has always bothered me. I'm a huge Ali fan but this has always seemed like a fluffed up version of the truth.

First, it was claimed to have been broken in the second round against Norton....Second, Pacheco claimed he felt the separation with his fingers and still let it continue....Third, if this were the case how was it that Ali could go 10 more rounds with getting tagged on the right side of his face and not have a completely destroyed jaw? He got hit a ton in that fight and it goes against conventional wisdom that this story is even close to the truth.

I believe his jaw was broken but I tend to lean more toward Eddie Futch's assertion that it happened in the 11th round, not the 2nd.

What do you believe?
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#2
Old 04-16-2009, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
I don't know about anyone else..but this is one part of the Ali lore that has always bothered me. I'm a huge Ali fan but this has always seemed like a fluffed up version of the truth.

First, it was claimed to have been broken in the second round against Norton....Second, Pacheco claimed he felt the separation with his fingers and still let it continue....Third, if this were the case how was it that Ali could go 10 more rounds with getting tagged on the right side of his face and not have a completely destroyed jaw? He got hit a ton in that fight and it goes against conventional wisdom that this story is even close to the truth.

I believe his jaw was broken but I tend to lean more toward Eddie Futch's assertion that it happened in the 11th round, not the 2nd.

What do you believe?
Sadly, the fact that he faced Bebnick and Holmes After he was completely finished, and his sad state now says it all.

Ali could not let things go imo, and i would not be at all that surprised had Ali continued had he broken his legs or something.

(well i would be surprised, but you get my point).
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#3
Old 04-16-2009, 02:58 AM
Hawk O'Connor
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Originally Posted by minion View Post
Sadly, the fact that he faced Bebnick and Holmes After he was completely finished, and his sad state now says it all.

Ali could not let things go imo, and i would not be at all that surprised had Ali continued had he broken his legs or something.

(well i would be surprised, but you get my point).

I can appreciate where you are coming from and, in theory, I agree with your point. But do you honestly think that it's physically possible? By that I mean being able to remain upright because of the pain and the fact that your jaw, in all likelihood, would be completely destroyed.

Just doesn't seem feasibly possible to me. Ali was the master at pulling off the unexpected but this one I personally kind of doubt.
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#4
Old 04-16-2009, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
I don't know about anyone else..but this is one part of the Ali lore that has always bothered me. I'm a huge Ali fan but this has always seemed like a fluffed up version of the truth.

First, it was claimed to have been broken in the second round against Norton....Second, Pacheco claimed he felt the separation with his fingers and still let it continue....Third, if this were the case how was it that Ali could go 10 more rounds with getting tagged on the right side of his face and not have a completely destroyed jaw? He got hit a ton in that fight and it goes against conventional wisdom that this story is even close to the truth.

I believe his jaw was broken but I tend to lean more toward Eddie Futch's assertion that it happened in the 11th round, not the 2nd.

What do you believe?
** Everything about Ali gets fluffed up, however he was a tough guy who could manage a situation.

Arthur Abraham heroically endured the massive punching of undefeated KO artist Miranda for most of that fight with a shattered jaw much worse than that of Ali. Arthur is over the top tough like Ali.

Here's a clip of midrounds. Not good quality, but it has Ferdie doing the commentary where he admits to a host of confessions that Kenny was dominating the fight with Ali doing very little. Ali is in a defensive shell, unwilling to swoop in from on the run for many patented exchanges that he specialized in.

Mostly he's just out of range, moving, or tying up on the ropes, going through the motions while waiting for the moment when he can snuff Norton. Of course it never happened. Pretty much most of the fight waged in the same manner, a real stinker because of Ali survival tactics. Without the broken jaw, Ali would've been more aggressive as he showed in the rematches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knGj4vtBBxU
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#5
Old 04-16-2009, 05:55 AM
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There is a pretty good reply of him getting hit while talking in the 2nd. He also can be seen spitting out very dark blood early in his corner.
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#6
Old 04-16-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
I can appreciate where you are coming from and, in theory, I agree with your point. But do you honestly think that it's physically possible? By that I mean being able to remain upright because of the pain and the fact that your jaw, in all likelihood, would be completely destroyed.

Just doesn't seem feasibly possible to me. Ali was the master at pulling off the unexpected but this one I personally kind of doubt.
Arthur abraham got his jaw broke in the 3 or 4th round and carried on
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#7
Old 04-16-2009, 08:19 PM
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Hard to say. Norton did hit him with a monster right in the 2nd round right on the jaw.

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biogr...e=UTF8&s=books
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#8
Old 04-16-2009, 10:39 PM
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Sonny Liston suffered a broken jaw against Marty Marshall and lasted the distance.

I also seem to recall a Kevin Finnegan fight in which he sustained a broken jaw and went on to win, so it has been done a few times.

Last edited by Kid McCoy; 04-16-2009 at 10:43 PM.
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#9
Old 04-16-2009, 11:33 PM
Hawk O'Connor
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Well, speaking from experience I know how badly it hurts. It hurts to even be touched let alone punched. Regardless if it is, in fact, true, then it's a testament to his legendary toughness.
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#10
Old 04-17-2009, 12:02 AM
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Well considering he was never KO'd, against some of the strongest guys in HW history probably shows how Tough he was, and how good his Chin was.
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