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#1
Old 04-03-2009, 08:03 PM
F l i c k e r
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Default Miguel Torres is not a p4p fighter.

Miguel Torres isn't a pound for pound anything. He isn't even worth mentioning. The reason that I have come to this conclusion is look at him..

5'10" and fighting Bantamweight? That is weak. First of all, the bantamweight division is a sad excuse of not wanting to fight your natural weight. Second of all there is no names in the Bantamweight divsion. Then you take into account his heightSeriously. Look at the 5'10" guys in MMA and at the least they are Lightweight. Hell, GSP is 5'10" and we all know what weight class he is in. So thats saying he can hold GSP type weight on his body. Thats saying Miguel Torres dehydrates all the way to 135 and then come fight night he is about Lightweight. Fighting guys who are 5'6" and on average will bulk up to maybe featherweight come fight night.

Then lets look at another combat sport; boxing. On average people who are 5'10" are in what weight class? At the least 140(JWW) which is Featherweight in MMA. So Miguel Torres is a 5'10" guy, he is in no way shape or form a natural bantam or feather. At the least I will give him lightweight and at the most I will give him boarderline Welter-Middle.

How can you call that pound 4 pound? I call that weak. The man fights people smaller than Urijah Faber and Jens Pulver. Then I hear all over the place that Miguel Torres is one of the pound for pound best? Then those same people who say that call KID and Gomi overrated? KID is a natural Featherweight and fought above his natural weight class. Gomi fought in Pride at 164 pounds when the limit was 170. Walked through some of the best fighters and even took apart the entire Chute Boxe academy competitors. And those guys are overrated?

Torres doesn't even have the guts to fight Feathers. So he drops about 2-3 weight classes to fight guys incredibly small, smaller than Faber, Pulver, and Mike Brown. Its sad, seriously and I hear he is one of the pound 4 pound best. No way. Pound 4 pound means your a small guy with the talent to beat bigger guys if you were naturally a larger weight. Miguel Torres is a bigger guy fighting smaller guys. That is not what pound 4 pound is. I cant even call Miguel Torres a good fighter because he fights guys way smaller than himself in a nobody filled division. Trash is what that is.

GSP fighting Urijah Faber does not make GSP a great fighter. So why is Torres considered great when he is of GSP size and fights people smaller than Faber.



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#2
Old 04-03-2009, 10:26 PM
Eric Holder
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skills wise I think Torres is definetly an elite p4p fighter

he is really big for his divison though I agree there, but so is Anderson Silva anyways I think I read somewhere on here that he's moving up in weight pretty soon
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#3
Old 04-03-2009, 11:20 PM
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wow i guarantee you won't find any fighters who make that claim
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#4
Old 04-04-2009, 12:24 AM
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HA!! What a joke.

Torres is a natural 135'er. He could probably make 125 if he wanted to. You can tell by looking at him that he's just naturally scrawny and doesn't cut weight at all. I honestly question whether or not you've even seen him fight, because there's no way even at 5'10 that he's bigger than any one of his opponents. He's taller and longer, but he's got no mass whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
At the least I will give him lightweight and at the most I will give him boarderline Welter-Middle.
You do know MMA weight classes, right?? You're essentially saying that Miguel Torres weighs between 155 and 185lbs naturally. So you're saying he cuts around 30-40lbs to make weight?? That'd be what... 20% of his body weight?? WTF are you on bro??

I have to conclude that either this is a retarded BS flamebait thread, or that you have no idea who Miguel Torres even is, let alone what his natural weight is.
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#5
Old 04-04-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F l i c k e r View Post
Miguel Torres isn't a pound for pound anything. He isn't even worth mentioning. The reason that I have come to this conclusion is look at him..

5'10" and fighting Bantamweight? That is weak. First of all, the bantamweight division is a sad excuse of not wanting to fight your natural weight. Second of all there is no names in the Bantamweight divsion. Then you take into account his heightSeriously. Look at the 5'10" guys in MMA and at the least they are Lightweight. Hell, GSP is 5'10" and we all know what weight class he is in. So thats saying he can hold GSP type weight on his body. Thats saying Miguel Torres dehydrates all the way to 135 and then come fight night he is about Lightweight. Fighting guys who are 5'6" and on average will bulk up to maybe featherweight come fight night.

Then lets look at another combat sport; boxing. On average people who are 5'10" are in what weight class? At the least 140(JWW) which is Featherweight in MMA. So Miguel Torres is a 5'10" guy, he is in no way shape or form a natural bantam or feather. At the least I will give him lightweight and at the most I will give him boarderline Welter-Middle.

How can you call that pound 4 pound? I call that weak. The man fights people smaller than Urijah Faber and Jens Pulver. Then I hear all over the place that Miguel Torres is one of the pound for pound best? Then those same people who say that call KID and Gomi overrated? KID is a natural Featherweight and fought above his natural weight class. Gomi fought in Pride at 164 pounds when the limit was 170. Walked through some of the best fighters and even took apart the entire Chute Boxe academy competitors. And those guys are overrated?

Torres doesn't even have the guts to fight Feathers. So he drops about 2-3 weight classes to fight guys incredibly small, smaller than Faber, Pulver, and Mike Brown. Its sad, seriously and I hear he is one of the pound 4 pound best. No way. Pound 4 pound means your a small guy with the talent to beat bigger guys if you were naturally a larger weight. Miguel Torres is a bigger guy fighting smaller guys. That is not what pound 4 pound is. I cant even call Miguel Torres a good fighter because he fights guys way smaller than himself in a nobody filled division. Trash is what that is.

GSP fighting Urijah Faber does not make GSP a great fighter. So why is Torres considered great when he is of GSP size and fights people smaller than Faber.



Enlightenment session over...
What a load of rubbish. This thread is no different to when you said that Aoki ha the best BJJ in MMA without having any idea of how to construct an argument based on solid facts. You were just favouring him because he was Japanese.

You're saying that because Torres is a certain height means that he should be fighting at a higher weight class. You compare GSP and Torres because they're the same height and yet you don't look at the fact that GSP walks around at 187 and Torres walks around at 150. You do know that weight classes have no connection with height right? That's why they're called weight classes. . .it's to do with weight and more importantly mass. Big difference, so the comparison you present not only between GSP and Torres but to the sport of boxing is completely flawed.

Who was calling KID overrated on here exactly? I haen't seen anyone on here say that. And KID isn't a natural featherweight, he's more of a big flyweight or a natural bantamweight. Gomi, yes overrated. Had a good run in 2005 but never fought anyone that was a danger to him after that including the chute boxe guys. They were overhyped and overblown talents who got by on the fact that they were associated with Wanderlei & Shogun. I mean Jean Silva being a top guy. No mate, not even an average opponent. Not to mention that he fought guys like Pulver who is a FW so by your logic that would make him no different from Torres in that he is a so-called "bigger" guy fighting small guys. But again this is where logic is flawed. Because when you use the weight classes properly like they do in the USA then you aren't a bigger guy on the scales because you have to make the same weight. Unlike Japan where you can fight at whatever weigh you want to unless it was a GP or a title fight. So essentially the majority of Gomi's opponents were blown up 145 or 155lb fighters who weren't even close to 164 whereas Gomi was a natural 170lb fighter who only had to cut weight when he had a title match which wasn't very often.

And are you serious when you say that Torres doesn't have the guts to fight 145lb'ers? You obviously know nothing about the guy. When he started fighting he was 120lbs and fought most of his career at this weight against guys who were 180lbs+. And you say he hasn't the guts to fight Faber or Brown. You are delusional and are just hating on the guy, nothing more. You also don't know that he is intending to fight at 145 and 155 by 2010 so your argument is once again a dud.

And yes he is one of the best P4P fighters in the world. You claim to know what the term means yet you refuse to apply it to Torres because you don't like him. It's not about being a smaller guy and being able to beat a bigger if you were the same size. That's just a retarded way of looking at it. You make it out to be based on size when it's not. Fact is it's about skills not weight. I mean most people would consider Fedor as the P4P king when it comes to MMA. He's a HW so how does your logic apply to him. Guess what? It doesn't, because again it's about skills not size. And it's a fact that if you took the skills of Torres and put them into a fighter from any other weight class he would beat the majority if not all of the fighters in that said weight class with a few exceptions. You say that Torres is a "bigger" guy fighting small guys but thats BS simply because all the guys he has fought prior to the WEC were bigger than him and in the WEC they're the same size, YES, the same size. They fight at 135lbs just like him. How does that make him bigger? I'll tell you how. . . it doesn't.




Reality check over. . . .
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#6
Old 04-04-2009, 08:33 AM
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totally agree with jakkups. Torres is defo a top 5 P4P fighter imo.
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#7
Old 04-04-2009, 10:58 AM
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r u deliberately slow?
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Old 04-04-2009, 12:27 PM
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I'm not going to be duped into reading through that ridiculously tl;dr original post to conclude that the OP is suffering from a neurological disease and is a mentally retarded human being.

E
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#9
Old 04-04-2009, 01:52 PM
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So Fedor needs to move down in weight because he's short for a Heavyweight?

No, no. Wait. Since Fedor is #1 P4P, all of the bigger Heavyweights need to stop being un-P4P'ish and move up to Super Heavyweight.

Right?

Get a clue bro.
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#10
Old 04-04-2009, 09:42 PM
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To the guy that said I favor Japanese fighters is stupid. I said Shinya is the best because that is what he is. BJ Penn's most exciting fights are won by TKO/KO so that doesn't make him the best at BJJ. I can consider Big Nog or Mir but Shinya does waaaaaaay too much things on the ground to not be considered the best. MMA -wise. If he did Abu dhabi then I think he would lose. As a matter of fact he has and he did lose.

As far as Torres. No, you guys dont understand what p4p is then. I cant say he is a good fighter because of the people he fights. The guy is huge and fights in the Bantamweight. Not like he is fighting Feathers, he is fighting Bantamweight. To say Torres is a natural 135 is ****ing stupid. That guy who said that doesn't know **** about combat sports beside the obvious punching and kicking. People cut weight to fight, there are only few who are on top and dont cut weight to fight. Torres is 5'10" and fights Bantam. That means he cuts at the least 2 weight classes to fight Bantamweights. Even the featherweights are smaller than his ass.

The guy who mentioned A. Silva. Thats true to but the people he fights are also big for 185. If I was to put A. Silva in Torres' situation then A. Silva would be a Welterweight. Natural 205 fighting 170s that is sad. But luckily Silva doesn't do that.

Fedor moving down isn't something bad. However its fucking stupid to even mention Fedor in this talk. He is a fucking heavyweight. Your stupid for even talking about him in this topic. Shows how mainstream you are.

Quite bluntly. A larger guy moving WAY down in weight doesn't make a top p4p fighter. Period.
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