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#1
Old 01-19-2009, 02:17 PM
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Default ..BERTO/COLLAZO: The Reasons & Reason...

After that fight, I KNEW there was going to be calls of robbery. And I knew why that would be the case, here are the reasons...

- BERTO IS THE RISING STAR. If you're not a fan of the rising star, there's a good chance you think he's a hype job. Good chance you want him to get exposed. Good chance you just don't like his style of fighting. Good chance you're just going to root for the other guy. When he was knocked down against Cosme Rivera in an otherwise dominating performance, it makes a lot of other people hope that Berto gets 'exposed'. Like getting knocked down in professional prize fighting is any other kind of exposure then the exposure that Trinidad, De La Hoya, Margarito (atleast a few times) and Winky Wright had to endure.

Because he's the star, a lot of times, people think that he'll get decisions and treatment he doesn't deserve, even if he really doesn't deserve either.

- THIS HAS HAPPENED TO LUIS COLLAZO BEFORE. When Ricky Hatton won the fight between the two, many cried 'robbery'. The honest truth is I don't remember the fight, so I wont get into that. Nonetheless, a lot of people thought that Collazo did enough to win and Collazo was obviously one of them. They thought that the bigger glitzier name got the nod and that builds up a huan instinct. Which is to hope that the guy who gets screwed over, gets things to go his way afterwards. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they SHOULD, sometimes they SHOULDN'T.

What people fail to realize is that, it's hard to get that good karma rolling when the judges are stuck with a close fight.

- HAROLD LEDERMAN. For whatever reason, people seem to fall on Lederman when debating their points on who won or lost a debatable decision. I've always found him to be a nice and somewhat 'funny' personality. But in terms of his scoring compared to say, mine, we just don't often see eye-to-eye. He scores for aggression one night, then on who dictates the action. (Often times, those are not even close to being the same thing.) Then he scores on accurate counter-punching and moving or who seemed to be more hurt that round.

My point being that he isn't the most consistent judge at this point in his career.

- THE 116-111 SCORE THROWS PEOPLE OFF + THE UNANIMOUS DECISION. If the scores would have been 114-113 across the board, these conversations would have died down some. If it had been a split decision but still in favor of Berto, this thing would have died down even more. The fact that one moron judge got the scoring wrong, however, doesn't mean that he got the winner wrong. Or that the winner in general shouldn't have won. One moron picked the same guy that two reasonable judges both seemed to think did enough in the final round.

Just because you get the rounds wrong, doens't mean you picked the wrong guy. And just because all three judges happened to pick the same guy in a close fight doesn't mean the fight was fixed, however insane one of the scorecards was. It simply means that he edged out a close, action-packed fight. It happens.

- PEOPLE OVER-ANALYZE THE IMPORTANCE OF A FIGHTER GETTING HURT. In the first round, Berto got knocked off-balance by a shot that stung him and he fell into the ropes. Some call it a knockdown (people on here and Bob Papa) and some say that he looked back to see where the ropes were, so he had to be off-balance more than anything. (me and the referee). Regardless of that fact, Collazo fell from being tired (also shouldn't have been a KD) but you don't here that complaint of a missed call. Even though, at that point in the fight, technically, Collazo was in worse shape. The problem is that Berto LOOKED more hurt, and people put a lot of stock in that.

The problem with doing that, however, is that Berto came back and had himself a good finish to a round that was up for grabs. Berto had been doing more in that round then got stung. He held for a while, smartly, then came back and buzzed him. To make that moment or that round bigger then it is, is a bit unfair.

Now, it's time for some reason.

In the aforementioned Hatton/Collazo fight, Collazo looked like he had been PHYSICALLY robbed after the Hatton fight. Looked stunned, dazed, almost confused as to how he could have lost that fight.

After this fight? One could make the argument that he had been robbed before, so he knew how to handle it. I, however, would make the argument that he's a man and would fight against what he thought was a bad decision. However, he didn't. He seemed to understand that they were both warrior sin there that night, and that it was an up in the air fight. It was a fight that either man could have won. When you look at the split screen and you see both faces, both hold their breath. That doesn't look like either fighter thought they had it in the bag.

When the score of 116-111 was announced, without either fighter knowing which way it was going to go, seemed puzzled by the thought of that fight being scored that way. Especially when it was read off to Berto.

Also, people need to keep in mind that if you had Berto winning ONE more round then Collazo after the 11th, that the fight was even and both would need the 12th round. And Berto got that round, pretty clearly.

However, I'm not REALLY trying to prove that Berto won, what I am trying to prove is that.... IT WAS A CLOSE FIGHT.

It could have gone either way. Just because it didn't happen to go the way you wanted, doesn't mean it was a robbery.

I know this wont solve anything, but I hope this can help us get over ALL of these bull**** claims. Hopefully, that will allow us to start focusing on the fact that we all got to see a GREAT welterweight fight.

ON A SIDE NOTE: Luis Collazo is getting a bit discredited when people say he exposed Berto. No, he didn't. He has just consistently exposed his own actual SKILL. He made Hatton look average, was MAKING Mosley look relatively ordninary before an injury and made Berto fight for his life.

Can anyone tell me the one constant?

Mosley doesn't fight like an old man, Hatton is a really good fighter and Berto is becoming one. It's NONE of their faults that they got matched with a VERY skilled prize fighter. That's how it's supposed to happen.

Thanks for your time.
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#2
Old 01-19-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ..Calderon... View Post
After that fight, I KNEW there was going to be calls of robbery. And I knew why that would be the case, here are the reasons...

- BERTO IS THE RISING STAR. If you're not a fan of the rising star, there's a good chance you think he's a hype job. Good chance you want him to get exposed. Good chance you just don't like his style of fighting. Good chance you're just going to root for the other guy. When he was knocked down against Cosme Rivera in an otherwise dominating performance, it makes a lot of other people hope that Berto gets 'exposed'. Like getting knocked down in professional prize fighting is any other kind of exposure then the exposure that Trinidad, De La Hoya, Margarito (atleast a few times) and Winky Wright had to endure.

Because he's the star, a lot of times, people think that he'll get decisions and treatment he doesn't deserve, even if he really doesn't deserve either.

- THIS HAS HAPPENED TO LUIS COLLAZO BEFORE. When Ricky Hatton won the fight between the two, many cried 'robbery'. The honest truth is I don't remember the fight, so I wont get into that. Nonetheless, a lot of people thought that Collazo did enough to win and Collazo was obviously one of them. They thought that the bigger glitzier name got the nod and that builds up a huan instinct. Which is to hope that the guy who gets screwed over, gets things to go his way afterwards. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they SHOULD, sometimes they SHOULDN'T.

What people fail to realize is that, it's hard to get that good karma rolling when the judges are stuck with a close fight.

- HAROLD LEDERMAN. For whatever reason, people seem to fall on Lederman when debating their points on who won or lost a debatable decision. I've always found him to be a nice and somewhat 'funny' personality. But in terms of his scoring compared to say, mine, we just don't often see eye-to-eye. He scores for aggression one night, then on who dictates the action. (Often times, those are not even close to being the same thing.) Then he scores on accurate counter-punching and moving or who seemed to be more hurt that round.

My point being that he isn't the most consistent judge at this point in his career.

- THE 116-111 SCORE THROWS PEOPLE OFF + THE UNANIMOUS DECISION. If the scores would have been 114-113 across the board, these conversations would have died down some. If it had been a split decision but still in favor of Berto, this thing would have died down even more. The fact that one moron judge got the scoring wrong, however, doesn't mean that he got the winner wrong. Or that the winner in general shouldn't have won. One moron picked the same guy that two reasonable judges both seemed to think did enough in the final round.

Just because you get the rounds wrong, doens't mean you picked the wrong guy. And just because all three judges happened to pick the same guy in a close fight doesn't mean the fight was fixed, however insane one of the scorecards was. It simply means that he edged out a close, action-packed fight. It happens.

- PEOPLE OVER-ANALYZE THE IMPORTANCE OF A FIGHTER GETTING HURT. In the first round, Berto got knocked off-balance by a shot that stung him and he fell into the ropes. Some call it a knockdown (people on here and Bob Papa) and some say that he looked back to see where the ropes were, so he had to be off-balance more than anything. (me and the referee). Regardless of that fact, Collazo fell from being tired (also shouldn't have been a KD) but you don't here that complaint of a missed call. Even though, at that point in the fight, technically, Collazo was in worse shape. The problem is that Berto LOOKED more hurt, and people put a lot of stock in that.

The problem with doing that, however, is that Berto came back and had himself a good finish to a round that was up for grabs. Berto had been doing more in that round then got stung. He held for a while, smartly, then came back and buzzed him. To make that moment or that round bigger then it is, is a bit unfair.

Now, it's time for some reason.

In the aforementioned Hatton/Collazo fight, Collazo looked like he had been PHYSICALLY robbed after the Hatton fight. Looked stunned, dazed, almost confused as to how he could have lost that fight.

After this fight? One could make the argument that he had been robbed before, so he knew how to handle it. I, however, would make the argument that he's a man and would fight against what he thought was a bad decision. However, he didn't. He seemed to understand that they were both warrior sin there that night, and that it was an up in the air fight. It was a fight that either man could have won. When you look at the split screen and you see both faces, both hold their breath. That doesn't look like either fighter thought they had it in the bag.

When the score of 116-111 was announced, without either fighter knowing which way it was going to go, seemed puzzled by the thought of that fight being scored that way. Especially when it was read off to Berto.

Also, people need to keep in mind that if you had Berto winning ONE more round then Collazo after the 11th, that the fight was even and both would need the 12th round. And Berto got that round, pretty clearly.

However, I'm not REALLY trying to prove that Berto won, what I am trying to prove is that.... IT WAS A CLOSE FIGHT.

It could have gone either way. Just because it didn't happen to go the way you wanted, doesn't mean it was a robbery.

I know this wont solve anything, but I hope this can help us get over ALL of these bull**** claims. Hopefully, that will allow us to start focusing on the fact that we all got to see a GREAT welterweight fight.

ON A SIDE NOTE: Luis Collazo is getting a bit discredited when people say he exposed Berto. No, he didn't. He has just consistently exposed his own actual SKILL. He made Hatton look average, was MAKING Mosley look relatively ordninary before an injury and made Berto fight for his life.

Can anyone tell me the one constant?

Mosley doesn't fight like an old man, Hatton is a really good fighter and Berto is becoming one. It's NONE of their faults that they got matched with a VERY skilled prize fighter. That's how it's supposed to happen.

Thanks for your time.
Berto is very raw, he has alot of nice punches in his arsenal but he needs to be more mobile and slick he stands too much in front of his fighters. On top of that he needs to condition much more. He looked gassed after the 5th

Collazo destroyed him on the inside and completely outclassed and outworked him. Berto shouldve lost.
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#3
Old 01-19-2009, 02:31 PM
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Luis was slapping...I had it 114-113 Berto...on top of that look at the stupid point deduction
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#4
Old 01-19-2009, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by El Dominicano View Post
Luis was slapping...I had it 114-113 Berto...on top of that look at the stupid point deduction
Slapping or not it rang in points and inside pitter patters to the ribs still prevents proper breathing which I felt winded Berto A LOT.

Berto throughout the fight looked like he was hurt more often and frequently gassed
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#5
Old 01-19-2009, 02:34 PM
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good post......
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#6
Old 01-19-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5punchcombo View Post
Berto is very raw, he has alot of nice punches in his arsenal but he needs to be more mobile and slick he stands too much in front of his fighters. On top of that he needs to condition much more. He looked gassed after the 5th

Collazo destroyed him on the inside and completely outclassed and outworked him. Berto shouldve lost.
Maybe his conditioning could use work, but then what about Collazo's? Berto won the 12th round, HUGE.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by reedickyaluss View Post
good post......
I think Collazo DID EXPOSE Berto.

All you need is a well conditioned pressure fighter to beat Berto. He rallies for the first minute or so then gasses and sits back to take shots.

He has great quick hands and counter punches at times but he doesnt move a lot. His immobility will let him get eaten up by good boxers like Shane Mosley Miguel Cotto or Carlos Quintana
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:40 PM
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I knew something was fishy because even when Berto was getting tagged, and losing rounds, Dibella was still looking cool and confident at ringside. Even laughing at times. U would think he would have a look of concern or worry on his face.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ..Calderon... View Post
Maybe his conditioning could use work, but then what about Collazo's? Berto won the 12th round, HUGE.
He did win the 12th but that was due to sitting out a couple rounds to regain his stahmina. Berto showed me one thing that will always make him a tough opponent. Which is his heart, Collazo brought a war to him and he brought it back.

But in the end I still feel Collazos inside fighting changed Bertos oncomming momentun everytime Luis turned up the heat.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:43 PM
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Both of them looked winded after the 11th round, Berto did enough to win the 12. I honestly had Collazo winning by one round, it was a razor thin fight and a good one at that. That one judge that scored that fight 116-111 was smoking crack and should not be let to judge a fight ever again. I don't think this this decision was a robbery, it could of gone either way it's just that Berto got the best of it this time.
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