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#21
Old 09-13-2011, 04:51 PM
McGoorty
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To a pal who I also respect a lot! - Terry A Old timer expert with great emoticon use. - Barnburner missed you around - McGoorty Cheers for the green. I'm a bit of a hothead and think I may have negged you for some trifling matter on another thread, which I now regret, so this is just an apology and hope there are no hard feelings. - It's Ovah Cheers for the green. I'm a bit of a hothead and think I may have negged you for some trifling matter on another thread, which I now regret, so this is just an apology and hope there are no hard feelings. - It's Ovah 
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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
From Raymond Swanwick's biography on Les Darcy:

"On 12th february 1917, 2 days after Darcy had begun training at Goshen, there was a heavyweight fight at the New York Sporting Club, in which Fulton knocked out Charley Weinert in the second round. Fulton was a giant from Kansas, 6 feet 11 inches tall and 15 stone in weight, who had won 18 of his 27 proffesional fights by knockouts. He was considered the logical challenger to Jess Willard- who was also a giant from Kansas, 6 feet 6 inches tall and weighing 18 stone- for the Heavyweight championship; but Willard could not be got into the ring to defend his title without very large financial guarantees."
"It occurred to Tex Rickard and Hugh Grant Brown to match Fred Fulton privately against Les Darcy in a training bout, in the pressence of only a few privileged spectators. This would be intended to test the Australians ability to fight a bigger and heavier man."
"The result could have only been a shock to anyone who might have thought that Darcy`s reputation had been overrated. In the first round he boxed with such speed that the slow moving Fulton was peppered with sparring punches and unable to make any effective counter. When the same happened in the second round, Fulton retired from the bout, and refused to continue."
I didn't know you had the book !!..... but yes that's what it said. And that was all I knew about it until I started to check sources....... I went through the sources to make sure I wasn't writing any lies or un-truths on my Darcy thread. I am very careful not to get my facts wrong............................................. .................................. these are most of the sources that Swanwick used. To get more information, you can look up D'Arcy Nilands efforts on Darcy, I googled Niland and came up with his interviews with Dempsey and Tunney........ and there are some of those newspaper reports on the Fulton spar. -------------------------------------- Thanks for doing your own research on Les, maybe you can find stuff on him that I don't know about. In fact all of the big names from that era have some amazing reading on them out there,.......... Battling Nelson for interest.
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#22
Old 09-20-2011, 08:57 PM
McGoorty
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To a pal who I also respect a lot! - Terry A Old timer expert with great emoticon use. - Barnburner missed you around - McGoorty Cheers for the green. I'm a bit of a hothead and think I may have negged you for some trifling matter on another thread, which I now regret, so this is just an apology and hope there are no hard feelings. - It's Ovah Cheers for the green. I'm a bit of a hothead and think I may have negged you for some trifling matter on another thread, which I now regret, so this is just an apology and hope there are no hard feelings. - It's Ovah 
Top poster - Toney616 No Message - rorymac It's your honorary Warriors fan badge..wear it with pride! KA MATE!!!! - Jeff Da Maori Good thread - rorymac cheers!  eat your fish!  tasty and healthy! - uglypug 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
From Raymond Swanwick's biography on Les Darcy:

"On 12th february 1917, 2 days after Darcy had begun training at Goshen, there was a heavyweight fight at the New York Sporting Club, in which Fulton knocked out Charley Weinert in the second round. Fulton was a giant from Kansas, 6 feet 11 inches tall and 15 stone in weight, who had won 18 of his 27 proffesional fights by knockouts. He was considered the logical challenger to Jess Willard- who was also a giant from Kansas, 6 feet 6 inches tall and weighing 18 stone- for the Heavyweight championship; but Willard could not be got into the ring to defend his title without very large financial guarantees."
"It occurred to Tex Rickard and Hugh Grant Brown to match Fred Fulton privately against Les Darcy in a training bout, in the pressence of only a few privileged spectators. This would be intended to test the Australians ability to fight a bigger and heavier man."
"The result could have only been a shock to anyone who might have thought that Darcy`s reputation had been overrated. In the first round he boxed with such speed that the slow moving Fulton was peppered with sparring punches and unable to make any effective counter. When the same happened in the second round, Fulton retired from the bout, and refused to continue."
From the N.Z. TRUTH; - A bystanders quote on the darcy V Fulton incident : ---It is just a long paragraph ; This is the bit:-- Mr. Bob Laga, who accompanied Mel Coogan and Fred Jacks as their manager to Australia, is all American from the crown of his hat to the soles of his shoes, but he hands it to Australia that she produced easily the worlds best Middleweight in Les Darcy. He saw Les work out with that six foot-Odd fighting plasterer, Fred FULTON. "It was a meal for your boy", said Laga. "He smiled his taking boyish smile, stepped up close, waving his head in neatly, in under Fulton's swings, and dropped his bigger and much heavier opponent, with one of the sweetest, neatest and shortest left hands I have ever seen put over. Why Darcy would have waltzed Home a winner against Johnny WILSON, and as for Dave ROSENBURG, upon whom the New York Boxing Commision has bestowed Wilson's Middle Title, a punch is all Darcy would have needed to lick him. Just one of those neat little lefts he placed on Fulton. He was a natural fighter, and they're always the best". ---------------------------------------------------------------- There are other great boxing tidbits in this newspaper,..... here is the link.. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...v7bD4AhDBjRjdg
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#23
Old 09-21-2011, 12:06 AM
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2000s Pacquiao/Hopkins
1990s Roy Jones
1980s Leonard
1970s Ali
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#24
Old 09-21-2011, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
00s - Manny Pacquiao
90s - Pernell Whitaker
80s - Ray Leonard
70s - Roberto Duran
60s - Edar Jofre
50s - Ray Robinson
40s - Ray Robinson
30s - Henry Armstrong
20s - Benny Leonard
10s - Sam Langford
00s - Bob Fitzsimmons
is Jofre the best of the 60's? what are some alternatives? Jofre was great but the 60's was a deep era was it not?

i'm glad you got the pac man at 00's. He's the one fighting everyone.
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#25
Old 09-22-2011, 03:15 AM
Greatest1942
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
One report I read from a newspaper said that Fulton was knocked out, That was one of the bombastic one's,.... came via Rickard...... who was trying to promote Les. ------------------------------ One thing I DO KNOW,.... after that "Spar", Fulton's stocks took a hit to his reputation, and he was not highly regarded after that point. Dempsey said that he knew of that "Spar", in an interview, and said that Darcy indeed gave Fred a 'Darn Thrashing", Dempsey had nothing but the highest regard for Darcy, and said that had looked up to Darcy as one of his heroes when he was starting out..... Dempsey said that he thought that only he could have beaten Les........ That was how Darcy was thought of by everyone in the 20's and 30's................ and that's why I think so highly of him too, NOBODY today knows what the old-time insiders knew about their own generation, Dempsey knew more about Les than any of us know..... remember that Jack Kearns had seen a lot of Darcy in action,...... and he was very jealous when Darcy told Doc that he was not interested...... in actual fact, Darcy mistrusted Kearns a lot.
1) When Sam quit 'against' Fulton he was already past it...it was way after Sam's prime...it was also teh fight in which Sam allegedly damaged his eye which made him blind later on.I would doubt Darcy will do anything else when he over 30 and blind in one eye.

2) Darcy KO'ing out Fulton is questionable...there are no primary source.

3) There was no better P4P fighter than Sam in that time...Poet is quite right.

4) "Mr. Bob Laga"--I will look into this, and Dempsey could not have seen Darcy - Fulton fight, and even if it happened Darcy might have Knocked down Fulton not out...starnger things have happened in sparring...you Spar so that you get you rlicks there not in the match.
I doubt it proves Darcy beats Fulton in a real fight ....

Last edited by Greatest1942; 09-22-2011 at 05:52 AM.
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#26
Old 09-22-2011, 03:20 AM
Greatest1942
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1) When Sam quit 'against' Fulton he was already past it...it was way after Sam's prime...it was also teh fight in which Sam allegedly damaged his eye which made him blind later on.

2) Darcy KO'ing out Fulton is questionable...there are a few primary source.

3) There was no better P4P fighter than Sam in that time...Poet is quite right.

4) "Mr. Bob Laga"--I will look into this, and Dempsey could not have seen Darcy - Fulton fight, and even if it happened Darcy might have Knocked down Fulton not out...starnger things have happened in sparring...you Spar so that you get you rlicks there not in the match.
"darcy caused fulton to stop is distress after 2 rounds"
The best ever Australian sports writing: a 200 year collection By David John Headon.

Again this was not an actual match, we will never know what would have happenned...Darcy might have exposed a weakness, or made Fulton feel uneasy but this is sparring remember.
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#27
Old 09-22-2011, 03:30 AM
Greatest1942
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One last thing,

this incident was to the best of my knowledge never ever posted in a newspaper of that time...which is strange....

NZ Truth posts it from a guy, we don't even know was there or should be there. The article is of 11 November 1922, well after the incident and Darcy;s death.
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#28
Old 09-22-2011, 04:01 AM
Greatest1942
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The only close source I know which proves they could have sparred , can McGoorty or others give me any other contemporary news paper report to prove this happened.

On a side note if this happened, may be it provided the blue print for Jack Dempsey to KO out fulton in 10 seconds, get under his arms and sock him...no wonder some section of the press thought they were similar.

Last edited by Greatest1942; 09-22-2011 at 06:34 AM.
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#29
Old 09-22-2011, 05:01 AM
wmute
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Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
is Jofre the best of the 60's? what are some alternatives? Jofre was great but the 60's was a deep era was it not?

i'm glad you got the pac man at 00's. He's the one fighting everyone.
He's the one fighting everyone after they just got beat. Strange way to the top of the p4p list. Let's put Calzaghe then, he beat Hopkins and Jones after all...
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#30
Old 09-22-2011, 05:59 AM
wmute
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This is a hell of a outhg question because many guys have been on top for a decade but not a 00-09 decade. This forces me to leave whitaker out, as leonard did more in the 80s, and jones in the 90s. Anyways let's try

00s - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
90s - Roy Jones Jr.
80s - Ray Leonard
70s - Roberto Duran
60s - Muhammad Ali (I know know, but IMO he showed the most amazing boxing of the decade, if only for a few years)
50s - Archie Moore (not too convinced, but it seems the logical pick)
40s - Ray Robinson
30s - Henry Armstrong

Up to here I am good, but I am not confident on the rest of my list

20s - Benny Leonard
10s - Sam Langford
00s - Joe Gans
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