Top 10 Lightheavies All time

[JAB5239]

Alright, this is my first actual 175 top 10 that I've put a bit of time into. Its actually alot different than past ones I've put together with fighters I thought I knew about. Tell me what you think, and if you have one yourself, post it. Constructive criticism welcome.

1. Archie Moore -185-23-11(131) More career ko's than any fight in history. Fought such names as durelle, Maxim, Lowry, Lytell, chase, Holman Williams, Marshall, Johnson, satterfield and Johnson.

2. Gene Tunney -81-1-3(48) fought some of the best fighters in history, some multiple times. Has such greats on his resume as Greb, Carpentier, Delaney, Levinski and Loughran. Moved up to heavyweight and beat Jack Dempsey twice.

3. Ezzard charles - 90-25-1(51) In my opinion p4p the best guy on the list. Beat fighters such as Moore, Marshall, Maxim and Bivins. Was also a heavyweight champion.

4. Tommy Gibbons - 94-5-3(48) Fought a who's who of great fighters from the early twentieth century including Kid Norfolk, Tunney, Greb, Carpentier, Miske, Levinski and Meehan.

5. Bob Foster - 56-8-1(46) In my opinion the hardest hitting fighter ever below heavyweight. His comp wasn't as good as most on this list, but he was 15-0 in lightheavy title fights. capeable of beating any fighter on this list IMO.

6. Micheal Spinks - 31-1(21) Won gold at the 1976 olympics. Held the title 4 years before moving up to beat Larry Holmes for the heavyweight championship. Beat top lightheavies John Conteh, Eddie Mustapha Muhammed, Qawi, Lopez and Johnson.

7. Billy Conn - 64-12-1(15) Conn is another fighter I rank relatively high p4p. He was an excellent middleweight before moving up to 175, and almost beat Joe Louis in a bid for the heavyweight title. Fought such notable fighters at 175 as gus Lesnivich, Bettina, Krieger, and Freddie Apostoli.

8. Tommy Loughran - 116-30-13(17) One of the best fighters of the roaring twenties. Fought the great Harry Greb to a draw. Also fough such top fighters from that period Young Stribling, Jimmy Slattery, McTigue, Delaney and Carpentier.

9. Mike McTigue - 108-46-13(52) The only fighter on this list not in the Hall of fame, and still somewhat of a question mark in my mind. But Mctigue fought a who's who of his era with mixed result. Among some of the names are Levinski, Loughran, siki, Stribling, Walker, Flower and Delaney.

10. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien - 134-11-23(54) Another question mark in my opinion, but I have seen him ranked highly by some notable historians. Made his bones against some top fighters from the early 20th century. Marvin Hart, who would go on to win the heavyweight title. Peter Maher and Joe choynski who were both rated fighter at 175b and heavy. And he also fought the great Jack Johnson to a draw while being out weighed by almost 45lbs.

[norma1250]

no Roy Jones? you have sorry ass Michael Spinks, and no Roy Jones???

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by norma1250

no Roy Jones? you have sorry ass Michael Spinks, and no Roy Jones???

Spink fought the better comp and never lost at 175. At their best, head to head it might be close. But Spinks was head and shoulders better than
Tarver or Johnson who both turned Roys lights out, albeit later in his career. That said, Spinks would have a shot at doing the same to a prime 175 version of Jones.

[LOLORSKATES]

I know history is unkind to modern fighters but I'd have Roy Jones up there for unifying and cleaning out the division.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Erbad

I know history is unkind to modern fighters but I'd have Roy Jones up there for unifying and cleaning out the division.

Believe me, I respect Jones. I just don't have him in my top 10. P4p he would rate higher than Spinks and maybe a couple other guys on the list (I'd have to be more thorough to say for sure) but at lightheavy his credential are a bit thin compared to the others I've listed. Keep in mind also, this is just MY opinion. I'd love to see some other lists to make a comparison. One fighter I totally forgot about was sam Langford. My whole list has to be juggled around again if he makes the cut (and I would imagine he does).. Other peoples opiions and mistakes are great learning tools when it comes to boxing history.

[Dan...]

I really think Roy should be in that list. I would say he should be somewhere between 1 and 3. Not having him there pretty much makes it ridiculous.

[Yogi]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

One fighter I totally forgot about was sam Langford.

That'd be my choice as the number one light heavyweight fighter of all-time, as his best work was done while weighing in within the light heavyweight limits, which was basically from 1908, when some reports listed him as 165, to 1912 when he was still being referred to as a light heavyweight by the press. After that is when you'll see the frequent reports about him being "fat", "out of shape", and things of that nature. Also during those years is when the newspaper men seemed to have the highest opinion of him as a fighter, as you'll see him being called the greatest black fighter of all-time during those years, predictions where he's favoured over other elite fighters of the time like Ketchel, as well as some comparisions (in mythical matchups and such) to what many early newspapermen thought was the greatest fighter up to that point, Bob Fitzsimmons.

A couple of quick things about his record during those years;

BoxRec lists a newspaper loss to Jim Barry in Sept of 1907 for Langford, but don't believe that as they're usage of the NY Times is quite selective and puzzling considering that's the only source out of the five or so that I've seen which stated Barry won the fight, including Barry's hometown paper which gave the fight to Langford.

Those three NC that BoxRec lists in late 1907/early 1908 for the Langford/Barry fights, well the first two of those were reported to have gone to Langford by the papers of the day, with the last one being called even or a "draw" (I've only seen one report for the last one, though). Just something to throw in there seeing as how BoxRec doesn't have them listed.

BoxRec lists a newspaper draw over six with Joe Jeannette in Sept of 1908, but again, the NY Times are the only one who I saw report it as such, as the rest I've seen voted for Langford (who weighed 165 for the fight), including two other papers out of New York, which was basically Jeannette's home territory.

Although Sandy Ferguson was reported to have had a good last couple of rounds against Langford in 1909 to earn a "draw", that fight was reported as a bad decision due to Langford being very dominate over the first ten rounds, including the reports consistently giving him every round from the third to the tenth.

The "draw" against McVey in early 1911 was also reportedly not an accurate account of what took place in the fight in France, with reports coming out of that country stating that the decision caused quite a scandal because some believed that the fighters took part in a "frame up" by agreeing to a pre-arranged draw (i.e. "In view of fact that Boston scrapper had much the better of mill, many are inclined to think that something had been arranged beforehand." - Apr 3rd, 1911, Washington Post).

Just a couple of examples where BoxRec doesn't tell nearly the whole story of Langford's fights during those years, and even the newspaper "draw" that Fireman Flynn was given credit for in early 1910 by that site may not have been accurate considering they're using a source that's outdated by nearly a year (i.e. "A little black fighter, Sam Langford, beat the local heavyweight, Jim Flynn, in ten rounds last night at McCarey's Naud Junction fight house" - Feb 9th, 1910, Los Angeles Times, which was reported from the site of where the fight took place).

If you want some expanded sources on any of that jusk ask.

[them_apples]

****ing bull**** not having roy Jones, his talent has yet to be matched.

This is a Biased list of Old time fighter's.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Originally Posted by norma1250

no Roy Jones? you have sorry ass Michael Spinks, and no Roy Jones???

As jab has stated, Spinks fought in a far better divison with loads of talent. That was one of if not the best era of light heavyweights in history. He was the undisputed light heavyweight champion, was unbeaten at light heavyweight and was dominate for 4 years going without a loss. Just take a look at the competition that was around of that time. A prime Dewight Qawi, Eddie Mustafa Muhhamad and many top unbeaten condeners at the time.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I personally would favor Spinks and Qawi over Jones at light heavyweight. Jones has not seen a consistant tough pressure fighter and hard puncher as Qawi or a fluent boxer and mover that also had lots of power at light heavyweight, in Michael Spinks.