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#1
Old 01-08-2008, 02:49 PM
judge_jab
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Default James Toney

Hey guys,

I have recently began experimenting with the philly shell at my boxing gym. I have decided I love it lol. I have only been boxing for about 5 months but have been doing ITF taekwondo for 7 years so the sideways stance etc feels really really natural.

I have experimented and have realized that the philly shell is pretty weak when fighting boxers who are shorter than you and that it works best against people who are around the same height or taller. So I have been using the philly shell against people my height or taller and the traditional guard when fighting shorter opponents.

I get a chance to spar or at least light spar with all the fighters in my gym and they range from a lanky 6ft 7 guy to a tank like 5ft 6 guy, so I have plenty of opportunities to try it out.

I think it would be useful to study fighters who use the philly shell well. I am working my way through PBF's fights and have seen James Toney using it in some of his highlights.

Which are James Toney's best fights in which he uses the philly shell, are there any other fighters who use this style?

Lastly, any tips on using this style?

Thanks
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#2
Old 01-08-2008, 02:54 PM
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Watch Toney vs Barkley and Toney vs Jirov. Those are two very good performances by JT.
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#3
Old 01-08-2008, 03:04 PM
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thanks a lot, also, what do you think about my idea of using it against taller or same height fighters etc?
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#4
Old 01-08-2008, 04:07 PM
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Watch James Toney at heavyweight. Toney can use his style against any kind of fighter (short or tall) but it's really hard to master. You need some reflexes, boxing knowledge and flexibility to pull it off like he does.

Last edited by TheManchine; 01-08-2008 at 04:10 PM.
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#5
Old 01-08-2008, 04:19 PM
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I have the flexibility, very good reflexes and my knowledge is building. I am a very intelligent boxer too but my handspeed needs to improve and my defense when attacking. Could you please look at my same thread in the Non Stop Boxing forum?
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#6
Old 01-13-2008, 09:15 PM
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Edit: double post

Last edited by BennyST; 01-13-2008 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Double post.
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#7
Old 01-13-2008, 09:16 PM
BennyST
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Default For defense or 'Philly Shell'

Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_jab View Post
I have the flexibility, very good reflexes and my knowledge is building. I am a very intelligent boxer too but my handspeed needs to improve and my defense when attacking. Could you please look at my same thread in the Non Stop Boxing forum?
You need to work a lot on your reflexes. It is a counter punching defensive style, not an attacking one. You should only go on the offensive when you are either following up on a good landed shot or busting out a combo when they have missed and are off balance.

You have to think in terms of counter punching and defense. The whole point of it is to get someone in and make their shots miss and roll over you while you counter and get them off balance and unawares, so you need super sharp reflexes and the courage to stand in the face of a full throttle attack while keeping your wits, keeping your calm and most of all keeping your eyes on your opponent.

As listed above, you need a very flexible, strong, explosive midsection to be able to keep up the demands of twisting, ducking, bobbing and then shooting back with a counter explosively and quickly. You also really want to work on your hand speed because if you are not fast it won't matter how good you are this style will not work that well for you. You have to have very fast reflexes and hand speed. Otherwise you will never come back in time to hit someone in the split second they are off balance or open to the counter.

The most important thing though: This will only ever work well if you practice it constantly. You need to just get in the gym and spar with it all the time. No matter how much training you do, it will only work if you get in there and put in the rounds. You have to get used to someone being in your face swinging at you like mad and not give in to the instinctive reflex to turn away, forget your training and just cover up or start swinging back with no regard to what your swinging for or at.

It comes about by fighting A LOT! You have to do it so much that you instinctively stand in and pull your shoulder up, tuck your chin in, turn side on to present the smallest target while leaning back and most of all, you know what is going to be thrown at you! That only comes about by being in the gym and sparring with everyone all the time. You will eventually see what is going to be thrown after doing it for so long it becomes second nature. You will know or see when someone is going to jab, jab and then throw a right or some other combo and you will be able to react accordingly.

The thing is, no amount of stomach crunches or running will prepare you for this. You just have to get in there and do it. Also, don't watch just a few tapes of guys you know about. Find every single video you possibly can on all the defensive counter punches. You should be able to track down nearly all of Toneys and Mayweathers fights pretty easily. Also look for Michael Nunn, Nicolino Locche, Herol Graham, Pernell Whitaker, Wilfred Benitez, Ezzard Charles, Miguel Canto, Joan Guzman, Bernard Hopkins etc etc. You have to study them and the more you study and see the more you will know and understand how the pros react to all their opponents with all the different styles and ways of doing it. Good luck, hope that helps a bit.
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#8
Old 01-13-2008, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judge_jab View Post
Hey guys,

I have recently began experimenting with the philly shell at my boxing gym. I have decided I love it lol. I have only been boxing for about 5 months but have been doing ITF taekwondo for 7 years so the sideways stance etc feels really really natural.

I have experimented and have realized that the philly shell is pretty weak when fighting boxers who are shorter than you and that it works best against people who are around the same height or taller. So I have been using the philly shell against people my height or taller and the traditional guard when fighting shorter opponents.

I get a chance to spar or at least light spar with all the fighters in my gym and they range from a lanky 6ft 7 guy to a tank like 5ft 6 guy, so I have plenty of opportunities to try it out.

I think it would be useful to study fighters who use the philly shell well. I am working my way through PBF's fights and have seen James Toney using it in some of his highlights.

Which are James Toney's best fights in which he uses the philly shell, are there any other fighters who use this style?

Lastly, any tips on using this style?

Thanks


The only reason that ****ed up, phony, philly style works is because you are facing opposition who do not know how to exploit it. Try it against Kelly Pavlik and you will soon see how worthless it really is.
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#9
Old 01-13-2008, 09:45 PM
BennyST
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potatoes View Post
The only reason that ****ed up, phony, philly style works is because you are facing opposition who do not know how to exploit it. Try it against Kelly Pavlik and you will soon see how worthless it really is.

Really? Why is that? Explain to us how to exploit it? Or maybe try explaining how Pavliks jab, jab, straight right hand, rinse, repeat would exploit it?
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#10
Old 01-13-2008, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
Really? Why is that? Explain to us how to exploit it? Or maybe try explaining how Pavliks jab, jab, straight right hand, rinse, repeat would exploit it?

When your guard is down you get hit more easily. Did you happen to notice that the brain-dead Arturo Gatti was trying to use the ****ed up, phony, philly style against Floyd Mayweather? Mayweather hit him at will. If Gatti had kept his guard up where it belongs he still wouldn't have won but at least he wouldn't have made it soon easy for Mayweather to turn his face into hamburger.

Pavlik throws punches in bunches and most of them come straight down the middle hard and fast. If he misses your head he will hit your shoulder if you present it to him. Pavlik is clever enough to throw the right more frequently when the left glove is guarding the waist band. That is how Jermain Taylor got himself knocked out. Taylor may not have been using the ****ed up, phony, philly style, but the end result was just the same.
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