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Could De La Hoya fight Pacquiao?
By: Dan Rafael
posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 | Print Entry
Larry Merchant and I we were discussing the state of the game the other day, just as we do regularly. One of the questions we were mulling over was about Oscar De La Hoya.
De La Hoya is supposed to return to action May 3 and he says he's coming back to the welterweight division he once ruled. But De La Hoya hasn't decided which opponent to pursue because it depends on what happens this fall, specifically in the Nov. 10 Miguel Cotto-Shane Mosley fight and the Dec. 8 Floyd Mayweather-Ricky Hatton fight.
The question the HBO analyst and I were discussing was what if Cotto and Hatton both lose? Then who does De La Hoya face?
Merchant's fantasy … better sit down for this one:
Manny Pacquiao, the world's most exciting fighter and generally ranked second on the pound-for-pound lists, at about 144 pounds.
Whoa! I told my main man he was crazy.
Before we get to the Pacquiao prospect, let's be clear: If Cotto and Hatton both win, one of them undoubtedly will be the Golden Boy's next opponent. Both would make for an exciting fight and both bring solid fan bases to the table, Cotto with his passionate Puerto Rican fans and Hatton with his legion of fanatical British followers. Both would be enormous promotions.
But what if Mosley defeats Cotto, which wouldn't be a surprise at all? If that happens, there's no chance of a third Mosley-De La Hoya fight.
Mosley owns two victories against De La Hoya and now they'e business partners. Mosley owns 5 percent of Golden Boy Promotions and that fight is simply not credible given their business relationship.
And what if Mayweather, a massive favorite, beats Hatton? Yes, Mayweather edged De La Hoya on May 5 in a fight that shattered all revenue records, including 2.4 million subscriptions on HBO PPV, but failed to thrill. Will millions pay $54.95 to see it again when they didn't get any **** for their buck the first time around? Probably not even close to the record they set the first time around. Nor do I think De La Hoya wants to tangle with Mayweather again. De La Hoya did much better than many expected and a lot of people felt he won. If there's such thing as a moral victory in boxing, De La Hoya got one and revisiting that fight is pointless.
That's where Pacquiao comes in.
Before Merchant dropped his bombshell suggestion, I was thinking along the lines of middleweight contender Winky Wright, who would give a limb to get De La Hoya in the ring and has said over and over he would go back to junior middleweight for the chance. De La Hoya has fought just about everyone else of note other than Wright and passed on a chance to fight him when the match could have produced the undisputed 154-pound champion a few years ago.
But then I thought about it: De La Hoya fighting Wright now doesn't make much sense for De La Hoya because it's almost a certain loss and the money he'd make to fight Wright would not be any greater than against a host of other opponents, particularly because Wright would take such a large percentage of the revenue pie.
I also thought momentarily about Vernon Forrest, a junior middleweight titleholder and former legitimate welterweight champ who was De La Hoya's teammate on the 1992 U.S. Olympic team. It would probably be a decent fight but there's very little sizzle to it.
There are other fine welterweights who would also be worthy De La Hoya opponents: Titleholders Paul Williams and Kermit Cintron and former beltholders Antonio Margarito and Zab Judah. But De La Hoya against any of them is just another fight, not the mega event that De La Hoya's fights have become.
Now what about this Pacquiao idea?
Pacquiao, to remind you, began his career at 106 pounds and now campaigns at junior lightweight (130 pounds) and is entertaining the possibility of a move to lightweight (135).
De La Hoya has fought from 130 pounds all the way to 160 pounds. He's a much bigger man than Pacquiao, not to mention about four inches taller.
But then my sage mentor began to make his case, and when you listen it's not such a nutty idea.
He reminded me that he was the one who first conceived of the fight between then-welterweight champion De La Hoya and lightweight champion Mosley. Merchant is the one who planted the idea in promoter Bob Arum's head and with his HBO bosses. De La Hoya and Mosley wound up in two major pay-per-view fights and Mosley, the smaller man, won both of them.
I called Arum to see what his recollection was about the genesis of Mosley-De La Hoya. Sure enough, the Top Rank boss said that Merchant was the first to ever raise the possibility of the fight.
And what did Arum, who promotes Pacquiao, think about Merchant's latest idea?
"We'll take it," he said immediately. "I don't even have to call Manny. I am sure he would accept the challenge without question."
When Merchant and I first began discussing the prospect of the fight, he asked that I allow him to "play the Pacquiao fantasy out."
Fine by me. When Merchant speaks, I listen.
"First, once upon a time, it wasn't unusual for outstanding champions to fight way over their best weight to make money," Merchant said.
Merchant, who has forgotten more boxing than most of us know, reeled off a number of examples to support his fantasy:
• Sugar Ray Robinson, the generally recognized No.1 pound-for-pound fighter in history, was the welterweight and middleweight champion, who moved up for a shot at light heavyweight champ Joey Maxim in 1952 and was stopped in the 14th round of a fight Robinson had dominated until succumbing to heat exhaustion.
• Henry Armstrong, the pound-for-pound legend who simultaneously held the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight championships in 1938, challenged Caferino Garcia for the middleweight title in 1940 and got a draw.
• England's Ted "Kid" Lewis, who fought from flyweight all the way to heavyweight, was at his best at welterweight, where he had two reigns as champion between 1915 and 1919. But that didn't stop Lewis from challenging Georges Carpentier for the light heavyweight title in 1922 (and getting knocked out in the first round).
• Mickey Walker, a Hall of Famer who was welterweight champ and middleweight champ in the 1920s, twice challenged for the light heavyweight title. He also fought future heavyweight champ Jack Sharkey to a draw, despite being outweighed by 29 pounds.
For more recent examples, Merchant also had ammunition:
• Roy Jones Jr., who won titles at middleweight and super middleweight and was the reigning light heavyweight champion when he moved up to heavyweight for a shot at John Ruiz's alphabet title in 2003. Jones won it in dominant fashion.
• Bernard Hopkins, who after his dominant 20-defense middleweight title reign ended against Jermain Taylor, jumped up 15 pounds and easily won the light heavyweight title from Antonio Tarver last year.
Another reason the fight isn't as crazy as you might initially think? Merchant pointed to the fact that on the night Pacquiao fought Marco Antonio Barrera in their Oct. 6 rematch, Pacquiao weighed 144 pounds, 24 hours after weighing in at 130 pounds.
"Pacquiao would be in his prime, Oscar way past his trying to make a weight he hasn't made in (almost) a decade," Merchant said.
Then Merchant added the part that makes the fantasy perhaps a reality: "It sells millions (on pay-per-view), Oscar wins and goes on to fight (an eventually) revived Cotto or Hatton. Let's do it. If you're a fight fan, you have to watch it. It's not De La Hoya-Mayweather I, but it's a big deal and a lot of money. And if Pacquiao loses, so what? It doesn't hurt him. He goes back to fight at lightweight. The fight is a tantalizing curiosity like Jones fighting a heavyweight."
Merchant also mentioned another juicy storyline that would envelope the fight: Who would trainer Freddie Roach work with? He's been with Pacquiao for many years and was the trainer De La Hoya handpicked to train him for Mayweather after parting with Floyd Mayweather Sr.
And let's not forget the bitterness, although well-hidden, that surely must exist between De La Hoya and Pacquiao after Pacquiao signed with De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions only to turn around and pledge allegiance to Arum.
During the ensuing litigation, De La Hoya attempted to stop Pacquiao from fighting by trying to get an injunction, which didn't work. The sides ultimately settled and Golden Boy retains a small percentage of Pacquiao's promotional contract. Just think of the juicy stories a fight between them would generate.
"In the spectrum of the kind of fights you could have, it's a fun event," Merchant said. "Manny is shorter, but he's a left-handed puncher. Oscar would be the clear favorite to win and Manny would be the underdog, but all of their fans would have to watch it. It's about creating an event. That's an event."
Hard to argue.
By: Dan Rafael
posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 | Print Entry
Larry Merchant and I we were discussing the state of the game the other day, just as we do regularly. One of the questions we were mulling over was about Oscar De La Hoya.
De La Hoya is supposed to return to action May 3 and he says he's coming back to the welterweight division he once ruled. But De La Hoya hasn't decided which opponent to pursue because it depends on what happens this fall, specifically in the Nov. 10 Miguel Cotto-Shane Mosley fight and the Dec. 8 Floyd Mayweather-Ricky Hatton fight.
The question the HBO analyst and I were discussing was what if Cotto and Hatton both lose? Then who does De La Hoya face?
Merchant's fantasy … better sit down for this one:
Manny Pacquiao, the world's most exciting fighter and generally ranked second on the pound-for-pound lists, at about 144 pounds.
Whoa! I told my main man he was crazy.
Before we get to the Pacquiao prospect, let's be clear: If Cotto and Hatton both win, one of them undoubtedly will be the Golden Boy's next opponent. Both would make for an exciting fight and both bring solid fan bases to the table, Cotto with his passionate Puerto Rican fans and Hatton with his legion of fanatical British followers. Both would be enormous promotions.
But what if Mosley defeats Cotto, which wouldn't be a surprise at all? If that happens, there's no chance of a third Mosley-De La Hoya fight.
Mosley owns two victories against De La Hoya and now they'e business partners. Mosley owns 5 percent of Golden Boy Promotions and that fight is simply not credible given their business relationship.
And what if Mayweather, a massive favorite, beats Hatton? Yes, Mayweather edged De La Hoya on May 5 in a fight that shattered all revenue records, including 2.4 million subscriptions on HBO PPV, but failed to thrill. Will millions pay $54.95 to see it again when they didn't get any **** for their buck the first time around? Probably not even close to the record they set the first time around. Nor do I think De La Hoya wants to tangle with Mayweather again. De La Hoya did much better than many expected and a lot of people felt he won. If there's such thing as a moral victory in boxing, De La Hoya got one and revisiting that fight is pointless.
That's where Pacquiao comes in.
Before Merchant dropped his bombshell suggestion, I was thinking along the lines of middleweight contender Winky Wright, who would give a limb to get De La Hoya in the ring and has said over and over he would go back to junior middleweight for the chance. De La Hoya has fought just about everyone else of note other than Wright and passed on a chance to fight him when the match could have produced the undisputed 154-pound champion a few years ago.
But then I thought about it: De La Hoya fighting Wright now doesn't make much sense for De La Hoya because it's almost a certain loss and the money he'd make to fight Wright would not be any greater than against a host of other opponents, particularly because Wright would take such a large percentage of the revenue pie.
I also thought momentarily about Vernon Forrest, a junior middleweight titleholder and former legitimate welterweight champ who was De La Hoya's teammate on the 1992 U.S. Olympic team. It would probably be a decent fight but there's very little sizzle to it.
There are other fine welterweights who would also be worthy De La Hoya opponents: Titleholders Paul Williams and Kermit Cintron and former beltholders Antonio Margarito and Zab Judah. But De La Hoya against any of them is just another fight, not the mega event that De La Hoya's fights have become.
Now what about this Pacquiao idea?
Pacquiao, to remind you, began his career at 106 pounds and now campaigns at junior lightweight (130 pounds) and is entertaining the possibility of a move to lightweight (135).
De La Hoya has fought from 130 pounds all the way to 160 pounds. He's a much bigger man than Pacquiao, not to mention about four inches taller.
But then my sage mentor began to make his case, and when you listen it's not such a nutty idea.
He reminded me that he was the one who first conceived of the fight between then-welterweight champion De La Hoya and lightweight champion Mosley. Merchant is the one who planted the idea in promoter Bob Arum's head and with his HBO bosses. De La Hoya and Mosley wound up in two major pay-per-view fights and Mosley, the smaller man, won both of them.
I called Arum to see what his recollection was about the genesis of Mosley-De La Hoya. Sure enough, the Top Rank boss said that Merchant was the first to ever raise the possibility of the fight.
And what did Arum, who promotes Pacquiao, think about Merchant's latest idea?
"We'll take it," he said immediately. "I don't even have to call Manny. I am sure he would accept the challenge without question."
When Merchant and I first began discussing the prospect of the fight, he asked that I allow him to "play the Pacquiao fantasy out."
Fine by me. When Merchant speaks, I listen.
"First, once upon a time, it wasn't unusual for outstanding champions to fight way over their best weight to make money," Merchant said.
Merchant, who has forgotten more boxing than most of us know, reeled off a number of examples to support his fantasy:
• Sugar Ray Robinson, the generally recognized No.1 pound-for-pound fighter in history, was the welterweight and middleweight champion, who moved up for a shot at light heavyweight champ Joey Maxim in 1952 and was stopped in the 14th round of a fight Robinson had dominated until succumbing to heat exhaustion.
• Henry Armstrong, the pound-for-pound legend who simultaneously held the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight championships in 1938, challenged Caferino Garcia for the middleweight title in 1940 and got a draw.
• England's Ted "Kid" Lewis, who fought from flyweight all the way to heavyweight, was at his best at welterweight, where he had two reigns as champion between 1915 and 1919. But that didn't stop Lewis from challenging Georges Carpentier for the light heavyweight title in 1922 (and getting knocked out in the first round).
• Mickey Walker, a Hall of Famer who was welterweight champ and middleweight champ in the 1920s, twice challenged for the light heavyweight title. He also fought future heavyweight champ Jack Sharkey to a draw, despite being outweighed by 29 pounds.
For more recent examples, Merchant also had ammunition:
• Roy Jones Jr., who won titles at middleweight and super middleweight and was the reigning light heavyweight champion when he moved up to heavyweight for a shot at John Ruiz's alphabet title in 2003. Jones won it in dominant fashion.
• Bernard Hopkins, who after his dominant 20-defense middleweight title reign ended against Jermain Taylor, jumped up 15 pounds and easily won the light heavyweight title from Antonio Tarver last year.
Another reason the fight isn't as crazy as you might initially think? Merchant pointed to the fact that on the night Pacquiao fought Marco Antonio Barrera in their Oct. 6 rematch, Pacquiao weighed 144 pounds, 24 hours after weighing in at 130 pounds.
"Pacquiao would be in his prime, Oscar way past his trying to make a weight he hasn't made in (almost) a decade," Merchant said.
Then Merchant added the part that makes the fantasy perhaps a reality: "It sells millions (on pay-per-view), Oscar wins and goes on to fight (an eventually) revived Cotto or Hatton. Let's do it. If you're a fight fan, you have to watch it. It's not De La Hoya-Mayweather I, but it's a big deal and a lot of money. And if Pacquiao loses, so what? It doesn't hurt him. He goes back to fight at lightweight. The fight is a tantalizing curiosity like Jones fighting a heavyweight."
Merchant also mentioned another juicy storyline that would envelope the fight: Who would trainer Freddie Roach work with? He's been with Pacquiao for many years and was the trainer De La Hoya handpicked to train him for Mayweather after parting with Floyd Mayweather Sr.
And let's not forget the bitterness, although well-hidden, that surely must exist between De La Hoya and Pacquiao after Pacquiao signed with De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions only to turn around and pledge allegiance to Arum.
During the ensuing litigation, De La Hoya attempted to stop Pacquiao from fighting by trying to get an injunction, which didn't work. The sides ultimately settled and Golden Boy retains a small percentage of Pacquiao's promotional contract. Just think of the juicy stories a fight between them would generate.
"In the spectrum of the kind of fights you could have, it's a fun event," Merchant said. "Manny is shorter, but he's a left-handed puncher. Oscar would be the clear favorite to win and Manny would be the underdog, but all of their fans would have to watch it. It's about creating an event. That's an event."
Hard to argue.
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