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Old 10-26-2007, 02:08 PM #531
Hawk O'Connor Hawk O'Connor is offline
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
That's true enough Hawkins. I'm more than the casual fan though: I watch fights with a much more critical eye than most: That's why I became a Lennox fan in the first place. I was seeing things the casual fans were missing out on.

Poet
Oh no doubt, I was just stating that other than diehard fans Lennox will not get anywhere near the recognition he deserves.
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:13 PM #532
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Oh no doubt, I was just stating that other than diehard fans Lennox will not get anywhere near the recognition he deserves.
Then again, Larry Holmes is also an all-time favorite of mind. To this day he's still the only fighter I refer to as "The Champ", He was the champion when I was a teenager so he cut a very large figure for me. I knew he was a great fighter back then, but, like I told boxing writer Peter Stitt, it was only on rewatching his fights recently did I relalize just HOW great a fighter he really was. His fights are now in my preffered watching mix.

Poet
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:18 PM #533
Hawk O'Connor Hawk O'Connor is offline
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Then again, Larry Holmes is also an all-time favorite of mind. To this day he's still the only fighter I refer to as "The Champ", He was the champion when I was a teenager so he cut a very large figure for me. I knew he was a great fighter back then, but, like I told boxing writer Peter Stitt, it was only on rewatching his fights recently did I relalize just HOW great a fighter he really was. His fights are now in my preffered watching mix.

Poet
Oh I agree, I love Larry Holmes. I think he is the most underrated heavyweight champion in the history of the sport. Larry Holmes could have been champion in any era in history. He was absolutely masterful and I love to watch his fights. And it's true, alot of the great ones aren't appreciated until their time has passed.
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:54 PM #534
Hawk O'Connor Hawk O'Connor is offline
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I thought this was interesting...a Bert Sugar list from '91 and the one he did in '05. Really interesting to see how opinion's change over time.

Bert Sugar 1991 Top Ten (Boxing Illustrated)

1. Jack Dempsey
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Joe Frazier
8. Larry Holmes
9. Sonny Liston
10. Mike Tyson


Bert Sugar 2005 Top Ten (ESPN Classic)

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammed Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:28 PM #535
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Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
I thought this was interesting...a Bert Sugar list from '91 and the one he did in '05. Really interesting to see how opinion's change over time.

Bert Sugar 1991 Top Ten (Boxing Illustrated)

1. Jack Dempsey
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Joe Frazier
8. Larry Holmes
9. Sonny Liston
10. Mike Tyson


Bert Sugar 2005 Top Ten (ESPN Classic)

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammed Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes
he seem to have excluded a few fighters in his recent list. i like his second list a lot more though. I wonder why he had dempsey so far up in his first list?
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:43 PM #536
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Those were posted not to long ago lol, a little b4 u came along. His reason was he listens to people! But he is living in the past imo. I dnt see how people can become less great..they have achived what they have achieve and that doesnt change
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:15 PM #537
metalinmybrain metalinmybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by LondonRingRules View Post
Butterbean knocked Holmes down in the last round and should've gotten a 2nd KD when Larry clearly rode the ropes with an iron grip to keep up after the count ended. Lucky for Larry it was only a 10 rounder.

Butterbean better than Larry and maybe Moe and Curly too!
WOW, this guy has to be the biggest ****ing idiot amongst all idiots around the globe. Butterbean vs Holmes? Are you serious kid, Larry Holmes was old enough to be his grand father in that fight and it goes to show the caliber of Butterbeans power if he couldn't even knock out an old man! Larry Holmes would have knocked Butterbean out of the ring had he faced him in the early 90's 80's or 70's for that matter. Butterbean isn't even rated as a boxer because what he does we can find everday at the circus!

Butterbean is a ****ing joke buddy!!!!
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:26 PM #538
metalinmybrain metalinmybrain is offline
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Personally I don't place much importance on the alphabet titles. So it's not a big thing in all reality it's just the fact that top guys drop 'em so they don't have to fight other top guys. I don't understand that rationale and I never have.

That is the prime reason I miss the old school fighters, they were more apt to fight anyone and everyone just to prove they were the best around.
Lewis should have stepped up into the pro ranks while Tyson was on top of his game. 89 wasn't the time to be crying about a title shot if he wasn't even ranked. Lewis decided to stay Amatuer because he was scared ****less of Tyson and didn't want to be another one of his victims he knocked out cold. After sparring with Tyson, Lewis realized that he wasn't ready for Tyson especially without head gear. If Lewis was any good like he claimed he would have stepped into the pro ranks along with Tyson so they would have both fought each other for a title shot at the WBC title holder. Lewis was and always will be a smart coward. I say that because he faced Tyson when he knew he could take him, when he built his confidence and skill. Lewis peaked around 30 years of age by then Tyson was way over the hill because of all the **** he had to go through out side of the ring.

Kevin knows it just as much as Cus did, Tyson would have beaten Lewis like a step child had he faced him prior to 89 90! Frank Bruno himself said Tyson would have destroyed Lewis had Tyson faced him instead of Bruno in 89.

Frank Bruno - "I'd rather fight Lennox once every week than fight Tyson once every year."
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:32 PM #539
Hawk O'Connor Hawk O'Connor is offline
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Lewis should have stepped up into the pro ranks while Tyson was on top of his game. 89 wasn't the time to be crying about a title shot if he wasn't even ranked. Lewis decided to stay Amatuer because he was scared ****less of Tyson and didn't want to be another one of his victims he knocked out cold. After sparring with Tyson, Lewis realized that he wasn't ready for Tyson especially without head gear. If Lewis was any good like he claimed he would have stepped into the pro ranks along with Tyson so they would have both fought each other for a title shot at the WBC title holder. Lewis was and always will be a smart coward. I say that because he faced Tyson when he knew he could take him, when he built his confidence and skill. Lewis peaked around 30 years of age by then Tyson was way over the hill because of all the **** he had to go through out side of the ring.

Kevin knows it just as much as Cus did, Tyson would have beaten Lewis like a step child had he faced him prior to 89 90! Frank Bruno himself said Tyson would have destroyed Lewis had Tyson faced him instead of Bruno in 89.

Frank Bruno - "I'd rather fight Lennox once every week than fight Tyson once every year."

What are you talking about?? Lennox Lewis was an amateur during Tyson's peak. Why would he cry about a title shot? What I was referring to is Tyson dropping the WBC title in '96 after beating Frank Bruno. He did this to keep from facing mandatory challenger Lennox Lewis and so he could instead face the ever dangerous Bruce Seldon for the WBA title.

Last edited by Hawk O'Connor; 10-28-2007 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:59 PM #540
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Those were posted not to long ago lol, a little b4 u came along. His reason was he listens to people! But he is living in the past imo. I dnt see how people can become less great..they have achived what they have achieve and that doesnt change
Yes, I was the one that told everyone that.

I saw Sugar a couple of weeks ago at the Bill Gallo Roast. He again stated that he listens to people like Ray Arcel and others. He also said can't a man change his mind.

He still has Dempsey pretty high at #3.
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