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Old 09-07-2007, 08:16 PM #121
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Holyfield deserves a good ranking imo. Lasted a long time in the game, Many belts, coming back from defeat, succesful rematches, going against the ods nearly his entire career and always disproving the critics(Maybe again soon), great boxing ability, NEVER DUCKED ANYONE IN HIS LIFE(He deserves so much respect for this!), ability to adapt, one of the biggest heart the sport has ever seen..man I can go on, what has this man not accomplished in his career? I have to be honest, he is definitely ahead of Tyson. And IMO also ahead of Lewis.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:12 PM #122
LondonRingRules LondonRingRules is offline
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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob View Post
The big deal is that you don't seem to be in grips with reality.

Prime Larry Holmes does beat the old, fat 90's Foreman.

You know your stuff LRR but you are the guy that laughed at Seer - who said Cotto would be champion. Guess what Seer was right- LRR was wrong.

WelshDevil
** Jeepers Creepers Robby, open up those peepers. I've always liked Cotto from the first fight I ever saw him in. His brother is pretty decent too and maybe holds a belt eventually. Cotto ain't the 2nd coming yet, but I'm willing to wait and watch the fun.

Prime Larry Holmes could barely handle past prime Norton, was lucky to survive a limited Shavers/Snipes. Many refs would've stopped that Shavers bout. Holmes, not as good a chin as Ali, not as shifty defensively as Young, never as good as Holy. Now maybe the prime Holmes could surprise the version of Foreman who was not ready for Morrison's hit and run tactics, a complete style change for Morrison or win a stupid Briggs decision.

The only guy Larry fought that represented a comprehensive threat was Cooney, and Larry had to take some punishment to take out Cooney late. Cooney hadn't even completed 2 rounds over his previous 2 yrs and never been past 8 rds in his limited experience.

Larry, a good fighter, but strangely absent during periods of great and good young talent in the 70s and 80s.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:18 AM #123
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Originally Posted by LondonRingRules View Post
** Jeepers Creepers Robby, open up those peepers. I've always liked Cotto from the first fight I ever saw him in. His brother is pretty decent too and maybe holds a belt eventually. Cotto ain't the 2nd coming yet, but I'm willing to wait and watch the fun.

Prime Larry Holmes could barely handle past prime Norton, was lucky to survive a limited Shavers/Snipes. Many refs would've stopped that Shavers bout. Holmes, not as good a chin as Ali, not as shifty defensively as Young, never as good as Holy. Now maybe the prime Holmes could surprise the version of Foreman who was not ready for Morrison's hit and run tactics, a complete style change for Morrison or win a stupid Briggs decision.

The only guy Larry fought that represented a comprehensive threat was Cooney, and Larry had to take some punishment to take out Cooney late. Cooney hadn't even completed 2 rounds over his previous 2 yrs and never been past 8 rds in his limited experience.

Larry, a good fighter, but strangely absent during periods of great and good young talent in the 70s and 80s.

I agree that Larry was not quite the dominant champion that some seem to elude too but I do think he had the jab and ability to soundly outbox the old version of Foreman. The Prime version of George I rate above Larry in my Top 10.

Out of interest how did you score the Holmes vs Witherspoon fight, LRR?

Also great to see your still around in the boxing world. And while I don't agree with everything you say - I do learn alot from reading your observations and posts.

Last edited by WelshDevilRob; 09-08-2007 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:27 PM #124
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I think Holyfield Faced 8 ex-champs and Champs. Tyson Faced i think Tyson face around 9 or 10, and Lewis i think only 5 not too sure with him tho
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:15 AM #125
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Originally Posted by The Iron Man View Post
I think Holyfield Faced 8 ex-champs and Champs. Tyson Faced i think Tyson face around 9 or 10, and Lewis i think only 5 not too sure with him tho
Including fighting Current Champs,ex Champs and Future Champs:-

Joe Louis : 8 faced, record 7-3-0 6KOS
Muhammed Ali : 11 faced,record 12-5-0 7KOS
George Foreman : 7 faced, record 4-4-0 4KOS
Larry Holmes : 13 faced,record 10-5-0 6KOS
Mike Tyson : 12 faced,record 10-4-0 8KOS
Evander Holyfield : 12 faced,record 13-4-2 5KOS
Lennox Lewis : 12 faced,record 12-2-1 8KOS 1DQ

I thought you lot mind find that quite interesting, when I have some more time, I'll go through and do the others

Last edited by hurricane72; 09-11-2007 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 09-10-2007, 09:04 AM #126
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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob View Post
Out of interest how did you score the Holmes vs Witherspoon fight, LRR?
** Excellent case in point. I had Larry squeaking by a win. Spoon gave him as much as he could handle and still win, which considering Spoon's poor training habits and inexperience, 15-0, speaks to the true level of talent that Larry had. Good talent, but not great talent.

Larry was 33 yrs old, and closed out the year against Scott Frank, 21-0 and Marvis Frazier, 10-0, both overmatched physically and in experience against Holmes, but much easier than a Witherspoon rematch. This is also when Thomas, Page, Tate, Tubbs, Dokes, Coetzee, are good physical specimans and entering their primes.
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:40 PM #127
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Holmes didn't get the belt until the point in his career when many would consider a swift style heavyweight passed their prime.

Those are some interesting stats you have, hurricane. It goes to show that the champions weren't so different after all when it comes to the level of competition they faced.
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:07 PM #128
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Originally Posted by hurricane72 View Post
Including fighting Current Champs,ex Champs and Future Champs:-

Joe Louis : 8 faced, record 7-3-0 6KOS
Muhammed Ali : 11 faced,record 12-5-0 7KOS
George Foreman : 7 faced, record 4-4-0 4KOS
Larry Holmes : 13 faced,record 10-5-0 6KOS
Mike Tyson : 12 faced,record 10-4-0 8KOS
Evander Holyfield : 12 faced,record 13-4-2 5KOS
Lennox Lewis : 13 faced,record 12-2-1 8KOS 1DQ

I thought you lot mind find that quite interesting, when I have some more time, I'll go through and do the others
These are interesting stats to be sure, but I wouldn't read too much into them. All world champions are not created equal afterall. There is a HUGE difference between Tyson beating world champion Trever Berbick and Ali beating world champion George Foreman.

Poet
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:30 PM #129
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Best heavywieghts of all time:
1.Muhammad Ali
2.joe louis
3.jack dempsey
4.rocky marciano
5.mike tyson
6.Larry holmes
7.Joe frazier
8.Goerge foremen
9.Sonny liston
10.Ken norton
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:40 PM #130
LondonRingRules LondonRingRules is offline
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There is a HUGE difference between Tyson beating world champion Trever Berbick and Ali beating world champion George Foreman.
Poet
** True dat, but then again Ali goes to 10-7 with fair judging for Norton, 8-7 if we throw out the Liston fights, and 7-7 if he had fought Norton the 4th time like he was supposed to instead of Spinks.

I just love it when numbers rhyme like a rhythmic chime in time!
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