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#1
Old 07-12-2015, 07:00 PM
The Old LefHook
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Default Charley Burley II

It may be crucial to investigate Abe Roth's reason for stopping the last Williams fight. That would have been dead center Burley's prime, 1945, after he had been a pro for seven years. If big things were in the making for him, that result could have spoiled his chances at the larger stage. Was Roth acting on his own volition, or was he put up to it, maybe even paid off? It probably was indeed a boring fight. They had fought half a dozen times previously and would never fight again after this.

There are many interests that might have wanted to kill any chance Burley had of a fight with Robinson or Cerdan or LaMotta for their own reasons. Maybe they were managers or trainers who wanted that shot for their own boys and figured out a way to get rid of Burley.

If big things were going to happen for Burley, they probably would have started around the time of that fight with Williams. Did someone throw a monkey wrench into Charley's world? It deserves knowing if they did. Was it an individual action, or were there schemers behind the scenes?

Williams was a pro for 19 years. By 1945 should be about when the matured Burley would have started manhandling the aging veteran. Up to that point their series was almost dead even. That disqualification might have been a pretty easy victory for Burley, and perhaps someone did not want that to happen. Just a thought.

Last edited by The Old LefHook; 07-12-2015 at 07:14 PM.
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#2
Old 08-18-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
It may be crucial to investigate Abe Roth's reason for stopping the last Williams fight.
Roth stated he believed Burley was not doing his best against Williams.

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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
That would have been dead center Burley's prime, 1945, after he had been a pro for seven years.
The fight in question took place in May 1943.

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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
If big things were in the making for him, that result could have spoiled his chances at the larger stage.
Burley blew up a few months later in July 1943 when he refused to go ahead with a bout and faced legal action, which brought about a 9-month "retirement" and separation from promoter/manager Tommy O'Loughlin.

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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Was Roth acting on his own volition, or was he put up to it, maybe even paid off?
Roth had a history of decisions he made in the ring that were questioned, most notable was eight months earlier when he stopped a non-title fight between MW champ Billy Soose and Ceferino Garcia.

The newspaper clipping from the day after below tells the story better than I can;



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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
It probably was indeed a boring fight.
Both said they were giving their best but due to each other's knowledge of their individual styles they were unable to furnish the crowd of a pleasing scrap.

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They had fought half a dozen times previously and would never fight again after this.
Fought once more in 1945, original date you were thinking of.

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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
There are many interests that might have wanted to kill any chance Burley had of a fight with Robinson or Cerdan or LaMotta for their own reasons.
I don't the fight getting stopped or not alters Burley's future to the extent he gets a title shot, or gets top name into the ring with him.

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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Maybe they were managers or trainers who wanted that shot for their own boys and figured out a way to get rid of Burley.
A question worth asking is, why did Mike Jacobs never use Burley at the Garden during war-time when the talent was a bit thin and boxers of lesser names and ability were given prominent slots.

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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Williams was a pro for 19 years. By 1945 should be about when the matured Burley would have started manhandling the aging veteran.
Amusingly the write-ups talk of Williams as a protege of Joe Louis', when many years previous it was Williams who helped novice Louis into the pro ranks.
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#3
Old 08-18-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
It may be crucial to investigate Abe Roth's reason for stopping the last Williams fight. That would have been dead center Burley's prime, 1945, after he had been a pro for seven years. If big things were in the making for him, that result could have spoiled his chances at the larger stage. Was Roth acting on his own volition, or was he put up to it, maybe even paid off? It probably was indeed a boring fight. They had fought half a dozen times previously and would never fight again after this.

There are many interests that might have wanted to kill any chance Burley had of a fight with Robinson or Cerdan or LaMotta for their own reasons. Maybe they were managers or trainers who wanted that shot for their own boys and figured out a way to get rid of Burley.

If big things were going to happen for Burley, they probably would have started around the time of that fight with Williams. Did someone throw a monkey wrench into Charley's world? It deserves knowing if they did. Was it an individual action, or were there schemers behind the scenes?

Williams was a pro for 19 years. By 1945 should be about when the matured Burley would have started manhandling the aging veteran. Up to that point their series was almost dead even. That disqualification might have been a pretty easy victory for Burley, and perhaps someone did not want that to happen. Just a thought.
Charley Burley - Thee biggest myth in boxing history. Next we will be reading Joe Louis ran scared of him
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#4
Old 08-18-2015, 06:18 PM
The Old LefHook
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Charley Burley - Thee biggest myth in boxing history. Next we will be reading Joe Louis ran scared of him
What does one do with myths? You try to disentangle fact from fiction and get a truer picture. We both believe the fuss over Burley was an historical afterthought likely promulgated by some journalist(s). We probably also agree that his quality as a boxer warrants a good peer at the circumstances surrounding his career. Even if and why he was avoided by some. There is nothing as satisfying as evidence, albeit the circumstantial kind.
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#5
Old 08-19-2015, 04:46 PM
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What does one do with myths? You try to disentangle fact from fiction and get a truer picture. We both believe the fuss over Burley was an historical afterthought likely promulgated by some journalist(s). We probably also agree that his quality as a boxer warrants a good peer at the circumstances surrounding his career. Even if and why he was avoided by some. There is nothing as satisfying as evidence, albeit the circumstantial kind.
When a relative of Burley's wrote a book on him a few years ago, internet forums were full of how "Sugar Ray Robinson ran scared of Burley" which is totally false. Some people rate him as "The Greatest Fighter of all Times" which is laughable.. there is video footage available of Burley and he is only average at best.
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#6
Old 08-19-2015, 07:23 PM
The Old LefHook
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When a relative of Burley's wrote a book on him a few years ago, internet forums were full of how "Sugar Ray Robinson ran scared of Burley" which is totally false. Some people rate him as "The Greatest Fighter of all Times" which is laughable.. there is video footage available of Burley and he is only average at best.
I didn't know a relative of Burley's wrote a book about him. Or is that a cynical remark? I believe calling him average is amiss. He was apparently about the level of Holman Williams. Was Williams average too? I don't know much about Williams, so it's an honest question.
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#7
Old 08-19-2015, 08:46 PM
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When a relative of Burley's wrote a book on him a few years ago, internet forums were full of how "Sugar Ray Robinson ran scared of Burley" which is totally false. Some people rate him as "The Greatest Fighter of all Times" which is laughable.. there is video footage available of Burley and he is only average at best.
Burley lost twice to Ezzard Charles, when Ezzard was still in high school.
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#8
Old 08-19-2015, 09:29 PM
The Old LefHook
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Burley lost twice to Ezzard Charles, when Ezzard was still in high school.
Did Burley and Charles begin their pro careers in the same year? Seems like I remember that, but I did not know the Ez was still in highschool. Didn't know he even went to highschool.
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#9
Old 08-19-2015, 09:51 PM
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Did Burley and Charles begin their pro careers in the same year? Seems like I remember that, but I did not know the Ez was still in highschool. Didn't know he even went to highschool.
I'm (slowly) reading Charles' biography. The records shows that Burely started his pro career almost 3 years earlier. It was clear in the book that Charles was an 18 y/o high school student when they fought the first time. The second fight was less than two months later, so technically he could have been finished with high school by then in Cincinnati.
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#10
Old 08-19-2015, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
Charley Burley - Thee biggest myth in boxing history. Next we will be reading Joe Louis ran scared of him
I agree his reputation has been overblown... I often see him and other murderers row types all rated in lists at the expense of the likes of Les Darcy, one of the reasons I now refuse to recognise any lists by anybody from anywhere anytime, they are all faulty, cannot be proved and are a waste of time. Burley sure was a talented guy, no doubt about it but ATG ? I don't think so, very very few guys who never won a title do I rate very high, Packey McFarland is one, Billy Graham the other... Darcy not one of them, he did have a world title just that some arrogant and highly biased people deny this as legit is boxings problem not mine.
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