Bookmark Website  | Free Registration  | The Team
Boxing Champions |  Boxing Schedule |  Boxing Video  |  Boxing History   |  Pound For Pound  | Lounge  | The Wire |  Audio  | Arcade

Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History
Reply
Thread Navigation

#1
Old 06-29-2015, 11:10 PM
Mintcar923
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 650
Rep Power: 9 Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute Mintcar923 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 221,930.96
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 221,930.96
No Message - zab191 
Default What did Angelo Dundee have against weight training?

I noticed he was one of the few trainers who was vehemently opposed to the concept.. Should boxers use weights or not?
Reply With Quote
Mintcar923 is offline
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
#2
Old 06-29-2015, 11:31 PM
juggernaut666
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,491
Rep Power: 5 juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 58,021.85
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 58,021.85
Default

Sports science wasn't around then,just look at the footage of what most heavyweights looked like then. take a look at Ernie Terrell than Lennox Lewis...its not even comparable..very scrawny,and almost look like they fasted..very few fighters were genetically gifted......take Frazier and tyson two similar body type guys and how vastly Tyson was the more explosive /dangerous fighter ,Tyson wasn't much into weights but did squats and plyometrics..Dundee like many things then are simply out dated,....just look up weights and sports in general...there is no disadvantage to any one who trains smart with weight training,that suits the sport.Foreman himself credits being stronger in his come back to weight lifting.Holyfield was a prime example of a weight trained boxer.....and the most athletic one arguably in the HW history.The bigger and stronger you are the more you should be able to perform at a higher level,this is up to the individual...this does not mean you are invincible,so lets make that clear....I really don't think anyone who doesn't weight train has much to say on this,my personal experience as weight lifting almost 3 decades I can tell you how useful in any combat sport,or any one on one competition is.One who simply never stepped foot in a gym,is only doing guess work...........I will also add no one would be doing PEDS if performance overall wasn't important.

Last edited by juggernaut666; 06-29-2015 at 11:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
juggernaut666 is online now
#3
Old 06-30-2015, 03:14 AM
ironalex
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 671
Rep Power: 11 ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 66,717.73
Bank: 129,499,223,100.60
Total Points: 129,499,289,818.33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juggernaut666 View Post
Sports science wasn't around then,just look at the footage of what most heavyweights looked like then. take a look at Ernie Terrell than Lennox Lewis...its not even comparable..very scrawny,and almost look like they fasted..very few fighters were genetically gifted......take Frazier and tyson two similar body type guys and how vastly Tyson was the more explosive /dangerous fighter ,Tyson wasn't much into weights but did squats and plyometrics..Dundee like many things then are simply out dated,....just look up weights and sports in general...there is no disadvantage to any one who trains smart with weight training,that suits the sport.Foreman himself credits being stronger in his come back to weight lifting.Holyfield was a prime example of a weight trained boxer.....and the most athletic one arguably in the HW history.The bigger and stronger you are the more you should be able to perform at a higher level,this is up to the individual...this does not mean you are invincible,so lets make that clear....I really don't think anyone who doesn't weight train has much to say on this,my personal experience as weight lifting almost 3 decades I can tell you how useful in any combat sport,or any one on one competition is.One who simply never stepped foot in a gym,is only doing guess work...........I will also add no one would be doing PEDS if performance overall wasn't important.


Lol @ "Tyson wasn't much into weights" - as if to say he dabbled in it, in his prime years he didn't touch them. "But he did a lot of plyometrics" every old timer did a lot of plyometrics. Jersey Joe Walcott, didn't touch weights, Ray Robinson didn't touch weights, hagler etc so many. Name me one fighter in the history of boxing, who used weights who can even be considered better than Tyson, Langford, Robinson, Armstrong, pep et al. Only one I can think of that could be argued who used weights (and it was mostly/solely leg weights) is Roy Jones jr
Reply With Quote
ironalex is offline
#4
Old 06-30-2015, 04:23 AM
jaded
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,512
Rep Power: 31 jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute jaded has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 26,110.94
Bank: 146,480,568,187,339,744.00
Total Points: 146,480,568,187,365,856.00
Thanks for the warning - MeiXiang  loving the sig - Alx.  gift - Daniel Alpha  Happy new year bro! - led*  funny poster in the lounge - jas 
atg poster - jas  I &lt;3 you! - led  No Message - jas 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - codey  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha  Gay and Lesbian Pride - jas  Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - jaded  AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - jas 
Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - jas  Children with Disabilities - Parkinson's Disease - VACTERL - Young Onset Parkinson's Association - jas 
Default

Prior to the 80's and even during the early 80's lifting weights and being muscular was viewed as negative. The term "muscle-bound" was synonymous with being uncoordinated. Then things changed and most athletes...especially where strength is a factor in the sport...train to one degree or another with weights. The old school thoughts about weight lifting had become outdated.
Reply With Quote
jaded is offline
#5
Old 06-30-2015, 04:47 AM
The Old LefHook
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 667
Rep Power: 2 The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute The Old LefHook has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 513.81
Bank: 1,126,162,492,455.36
Total Points: 1,126,162,492,969.17
Default

Steroids bridged the gap nicely between boxing and weight training. A steroid bull is compelled psychologically to lift weights. He probably could not avoid it. Weightlifting will work effectively for boxers if it is done scientifically.

Angelo only wanted muscle elephants if they were natural. Since the time of Robinson the ideal fighting man was pictured as lean and mobile. There are other means of doing anything that weights will do for a boxer, and Angie knew this. If no one who lifted weights had ever impressed him up to that time, why should he believe in weights?
Reply With Quote
The Old LefHook is online now
#6
Old 06-30-2015, 07:00 AM
juggernaut666
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,491
Rep Power: 5 juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute juggernaut666 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 58,021.85
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 58,021.85
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironalex View Post
Lol @ "Tyson wasn't much into weights" - as if to say he dabbled in it, in his prime years he didn't touch them. "But he did a lot of plyometrics" every old timer did a lot of plyometrics. Jersey Joe Walcott, didn't touch weights, Ray Robinson didn't touch weights, hagler etc so many. Name me one fighter in the history of boxing, who used weights who can even be considered better than Tyson, Langford, Robinson, Armstrong, pep et al. Only one I can think of that could be argued who used weights (and it was mostly/solely leg weights) is Roy Jones jr
I have already stated squats ,which builds ALL the muscles lower and top ,which is why ppl who dont lift shouldn't give advice on this subject ,in short its not who can beat who its will weight training help impove performance and the answer is yes ......the END!

oh and RJJ would be to explosive for SRR!

Last edited by juggernaut666; 06-30-2015 at 07:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
juggernaut666 is online now
#7
Old 06-30-2015, 08:03 AM
billeau2
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,263
Rep Power: 11 billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,100,127,905.64
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,100,127,905.64
Grade A explanation of punching technique. - - Ram Raid - 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juggernaut666 View Post
I have already stated squats ,which builds ALL the muscles lower and top ,which is why ppl who dont lift shouldn't give advice on this subject ,in short its not who can beat who its will weight training help impove performance and the answer is yes ......the END!

oh and RJJ would be to explosive for SRR!
The end? really? Elroy junior says its the end so close the thread!"
Reply With Quote
billeau2 is offline
#8
Old 06-30-2015, 08:15 AM
billeau2
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,263
Rep Power: 11 billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute billeau2 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,100,127,905.64
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,100,127,905.64
Grade A explanation of punching technique. - - Ram Raid - 
Default

Weight training is nothng more than a means to an end. it is one way of developing physically.

I have given an example of how the dilemna between weight lifters and professional trainers has played out and I will give it again because it casts some light on this subject.

in football one of the biggest issues was the time it took to weight train....Coaches wanted maximum muscle exhaustion to facilitate growth, but in a very short time. Nautilus machines (yu have seen them in clubs) were designed for this purpose. They were made to allow negatives, i.e. the weight could be resisted actively in both directions, lifting up and bringing the weight back on the machine.

This concept revolutionized training....Football teams in college started getting larger, faster, better players, not so much because of the machines but because coaches learned that a physical workout with weights could be done with maximum intensity and for a short duration. Through circuit training a player could work his primary muscle areas to failure (you literally cannot lift the weight again) in ten minutes or less!

What that has done is create all the framework for seeing how ridiculous it is for a trained athlete to do long weight lifting sessions. The next step in fitness evolution was to realize that the proper muscles to be exerscized were the muscles that we actually use to do work, our trunk and leg muscles.

So lifting weights in a conventional sense takes training time away from an athlete. Grappling for 10 minutes will show you how little weight training in conventional sense really helps one to get stronger.... Idiots like Jug head still believe that doing squats and benchpresses will make an athlete perform better and if he were right James Toney, fatman would not be throwing more punchers per a round than a guy like Rahman who obviously lifted weights.

As a supplement to build strength weights can be useful, and used like an althlete should: maximum intensity, low reps, to muscle failure, weights can build strength to a degree. But the ideal fighting man is still the man who does rounds incorporates economy of motion, and has little extra mass.
Reply With Quote
billeau2 is offline
#9
Old 06-30-2015, 08:55 AM
sonnyboyx2
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 5,075
Rep Power: 18 sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 84,912,431.64
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 84,912,431.64
Gift for Green - HaglerSteelChin  Illiterate troll of the month award. - Jim Jeffries  for being a cool poster in history section - led  Cool poster award - -Lightsout-  Like reading your posts, funny too.  Good job, keep it up. - -D33Pwaters- 
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - Demise  Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - tanibanana 
Default

weight lifting is bad for fast-twitch muscles Angelo claimed...All todays sportsmen and women use steroids
Reply With Quote
sonnyboyx2 is offline
#10
Old 06-30-2015, 11:03 AM
ironalex
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 671
Rep Power: 11 ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute ironalex has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 66,717.73
Bank: 129,499,223,100.60
Total Points: 129,499,289,818.33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juggernaut666 View Post
I have already stated squats ,which builds ALL the muscles lower and top ,which is why ppl who dont lift shouldn't give advice on this subject ,in short its not who can beat who its will weight training help impove performance and the answer is yes ......the END!

oh and RJJ would be to explosive for SRR!
I don't know if you know this but Squats without weights = not using weight. It's a type of calistetic. Who cares if I have lifted or not - that has nothing to do with it. What are your boxing credentials? Because this after all is boxing, not weight lifting. Here's a prime example... Joe calzaghe vs Jeff lacy.
Reply With Quote
ironalex is offline
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
angelo , dundee , training? , weight

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Privacy Policy - Submit News - Feedback - Site Map - Advertise with Us

Copyright 2003-2014 BoxingScene LLC All rights reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.