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Old 02-28-2007, 10:06 AM #1
me2007 me2007 is offline
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Default talent vs potential vs outcome

I was thinking today about whether talent actually means anything. If you have two guys who start boxing at the same time, one is clearly more talented than the other and can master the footwork and punches straight away whereas the other guy struggles. Is this guy talented?

If we fast forward a year and both have mastered the same skills, then what is the use of being talented? surely talent just makes you get to a certain stage more quickly, but is not an indication of potential...how potentially good you are...

could it be that you can have a guy that is not talented but has more potential and ends up going further than the "talented guy".....

Maybe it comes down to dedication and luck...

When i first started to box, people thought i had been boxing for 2 or 3 years but i had never boxed before...

that said, i couldn`t replicate this "talent" in sparring and my confidence went..

what makes a talented guy in your opinons?

any thoughts?
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:13 AM #2
David06 David06 is offline
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Originally Posted by me2007 View Post
If we fast forward a year and both have mastered the same skills, then what is the use of being talented?
If after a year, these two guys are at the same place skill-wise, this means one of two things.

Either a)guy #1 started slacking because of all the praise, thinking "Hey if I'm so talented I guess I don't need to work so hard" and he let guy #2 catch up to him or b)Guy #2 put in extra time, and hard work in order to make up for his lack of talent.

Or it could be a little both. Either way, hard work beats talent, every time. But if guy #1 is more talented than guy #2, guy #1 will always be better, until guy #2 starts to work harder than guy #1.

That's all there is to it.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:37 PM #3
PunchDrunk PunchDrunk is offline
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Talent is potential. If you have two guys who work equally hard, the guy who becomes better, is the more talented. Simple really.

Now, there are so many different areas you can be talented in, that it gets a little blurred as to what talent precisely is. There are many different little things, like technical proficiency, tactical ability, chin, speed, etc. The more of these things you posses, the greater your talent. You still need to work hard though, because if you don't some hard ass worker with much less talent is gonna knock your socks off!
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:38 PM #4
PunchDrunk PunchDrunk is offline
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Originally Posted by David06 View Post
If after a year, these two guys are at the same place skill-wise, this means one of two things.

Either a)guy #1 started slacking because of all the praise, thinking "Hey if I'm so talented I guess I don't need to work so hard" and he let guy #2 catch up to him or b)Guy #2 put in extra time, and hard work in order to make up for his lack of talent.

Or it could be a little both. Either way, hard work beats talent, every time. But if guy #1 is more talented than guy #2, guy #1 will always be better, until guy #2 starts to work harder than guy #1.

That's all there is to it.
Hard work does not beat talent every time. It depends on how much talent and how much hard work. You can't oversimplify it like that.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:44 PM #5
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I guess it depends on how you look at it. Sure there are some people that are born with physical attributes that work to their advantage. Part of the old Nature VS Nurture argument...but most people would tell you that hard work, dedication, and persistance will take you a lot farther than talent alone. Now a combination of both is ideal.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:53 PM #6
Trick Trick is offline
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Personally, I don't really believe a whole lot in talent. OFFICIALY, I've only been a boxer for a month, as that's when I've started goin' to a gym and gettin' trained. Now people there think I'm really talented, but the reality is I've been boxin' since I was like 4. I don't really think that talent is something you're born with, more that little things that influence you after you're born, even if only seconds after you're born. Like in my case, I was exposed to boxing really early (well I've also been training a while on my own) so a lot of things come naturally to me.

Also, hard work beats talent any day.

Peace,
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:31 PM #7
David06 David06 is offline
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Originally Posted by PunchDrunk View Post
Hard work does not beat talent every time. It depends on how much talent and how much hard work. You can't oversimplify it like that.
True. What I meant was if you have one guy with minimal talent who trains his ass off, he will beat a guy with talent who just goes through the motions every day.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:28 PM #8
PunchDrunk PunchDrunk is offline
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Originally Posted by Trick View Post
Personally, I don't really believe a whole lot in talent. OFFICIALY, I've only been a boxer for a month, as that's when I've started goin' to a gym and gettin' trained. Now people there think I'm really talented, but the reality is I've been boxin' since I was like 4. I don't really think that talent is something you're born with, more that little things that influence you after you're born, even if only seconds after you're born. Like in my case, I was exposed to boxing really early (well I've also been training a while on my own) so a lot of things come naturally to me.

Also, hard work beats talent any day.

Peace,
Trick
Sorry, but you're so wrong. Talent is something you're born with, and the TRULY gifted fighters cannot be touched by someone with very little talent, no matter how hard they work.

I've been training fighters for years, and I've seen all different combinations of talent and hard work. One of my currently HARDEST working guys is unfortunately cursed with a mediocre talent. He's not even that bad, and has SOME talent. When it comes to training, NO ONE can get close to him. Long distance running, he's my best guy. Intervals, sprints, best guy. ANy kind of training we do, he's ALWAYS the guy pulling the other guys through, the one leading the way. He's got 75 fights. I put him in with an above average talented 17 year old with 30 fights, he gets knocked around like you wouldn't believe. And this 17 year old is a lazy SOB, always cutting corners. Both are featherweights

I have another 17 year old. A lightweight. He's a Palestinian. This kid is so talented you wouldn't believe it. A natural, You show him something once, he's got it down to perfection. He's 34-1, his only loss coming in his 4th fight against the National junior champion at the time. Now, because he's an Arab, he's always got commitments with his family and such, so he really doesn't train much. 3 times a week maybe (my other fighters train every day). In September '06 he fought in a tournament in Germany. His 3 opponents were all from the German national team. He knocked out two and outscored the third one in round 2. The German national coaches were calling him the next Amir Khan (sure hope so ). If you've ever seen such talent, you'll know that talent is BORN.

Now these two guys are at each end of the scale, one with little talent and the hardest working guy you'll ever meet. The other doesn't do much training, but has all the talent you, me, and everyone else ever DREAMED of.
Hard work does NOT beat talent every time. Like I said, it depends on HOW MUCH talent, and HOW MUCH hard work. Yes, it takes hard work, but without talent you can forget about it. If you want to get to the top, you need both. If you think otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:36 PM #9
Kid Achilles Kid Achilles is offline
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One of the greatest talents one can have in boxing initially is a mastery over fear and comfort with adrenaline. You can have the strongest, quickest man around get his ass beat in sparring by another slow, weak newcomer who is just fearless and scares him out of the ring.

Although all sports are largely mental, boxing is even more so. Obviously exceptional physical capability (aka talent) is a prerequisite for success in boxing, but without the mentality and character to back it up it will only take one so far.

Also another point I'd like to make is that those who are blessed with talent for boxing are more likely to stick with it and develop themselves to the elite level. It's hard to stick around the gym when you're getting your ass beat all the time.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:39 PM #10
PunchDrunk PunchDrunk is offline
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Originally Posted by Kid Achilles View Post
One of the greatest talents one can have in boxing initially is a mastery over fear and comfort with adrenaline. You can have the strongest, quickest man around get his ass beat in sparring by another slow, weak newcomer who is just fearless and scares him out of the ring.

Although all sports are largely mental, boxing is even more so. Obviously exceptional physical capability (aka talent) is a prerequisite for success in boxing, but without the mentality and character to back it up it will only take one so far.

Also another point I'd like to make is that those who are blessed with talent for boxing are more likely to stick with it and develop themselves to the elite level. It's hard to stick around the gym when you're getting your ass beat all the time.
Good points. I'd like to point out that talent doesn't have to be just physical though.
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