Who has the better shoulder roll, James Toney or Floyd Mayweather Jr?

[SalimShady1212]

James Toney has moved all the way to heavyweight and is yet to be KO'd and has never really looked seriously hurt whereas Mayweather is 48-0 and arguably one of the all time greats. So who has the better shoulder roll in your opinion.

http://youtu.be/FCiVNJ60RyA

[MPX309]

INB4 Influx of Floyd haters choose Toney, or any other boxer that's not Floyd whatever the question

[IronDanHamza]

Well Toney got his a lot more than Floyd does. And his shoulder roll wasn't very effective in the many fights the struggled in through out his career.

So I would say Mayweather.

[Fists_of_Fury]

Toney used steroids ffs!!! Toney is more known for his fat rolls than his shoulder roll lol. Mayweather's use of the shoulder roll was suppose to get him knocked out easy if he tried that against a southpaw... he used it and won an easy UD against the most hyped southpaw of all time. Fighters now want to use the shoulder roll to emulate Floyd... they didn't do that for James "Waist Out" Toney. Haters will always hate on Floyd though. You could put up a poll of Floyd vs Salka and some of the same Floyd haters will vote for Salka over Floyd.

[billeau2]

Its an interesting thread. Without assuming there are haters and lovers (so to speak) both Toney and Mayweather come from a tradition of boxing out of the Detriot area, an area with many a fine technical fighter. Even guys like Michael Moore, who are not ATG's, have a history of being technically sound and distinct.

One of the techniques used, and it seems to get such an exxagerated amount of attention considering all the other wonderful things Detriot area fighters are known for...is the shoulder roll. I would say the criteria would be how well integrated this technique is when we consider who has the better technique.

By the way there are varations of this technique in Karate. Right here in Baltimore one of the most unrecognized ATG's of martial arts mastery, Riley Hawkins, taught a variation of this technique, it works well to protect from linear attacks and even to stabilize... this last point makes the karate version different than the boxing version in some respects.

For my money I think both Mayweather and Toney use the technique as intended and to great effect, I don't think one guy has developed a superior use of the technique. The trick in the boxing variation is to understand there are basically two varations of the shoulder roll. the first has roots in moore and probably other fighters and it involves not setting, but moving in semi circles, with the gloves held cross hand. the idea is to always give the opponent your side and not square up....BOth variations do not make much use of the jab, the idea being to get them to commit and then leaning back gives one space to see the attack develop, while the chin is protected, and then to counter the opponent.

The second variation is used more by Toney and in it you set, again, leaning back to see the attack develop one can then counter.

The weaknesses to the shoulder roll are a very accurate jab, and any punch that comes in at a circle. But...this circular action is why the hands are held as they are.

As a generality it lets guys who are excellent counter punchers, like toney and mayweather have a chance to react, respond to the attack and both these guys use it excellently.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Toney

Let Floyd gain 50 pounds of fat and fight huck or kovolev..

Floyd is better overall, but toney was a freak

[boxinghead530]

I think on strictly the shoulder roll I have to say mayweather. But Toney does untilieses more technics. I love Floyds shoulder roll. He is so touchable when he's in a zone. But Toney(one of my favorite fighters) he could totally stay in the pocket and not use any foot movement to get out of the way and still be very hard to touch. Toney would use his shoulder roll, head movement, slips and his other vast majority of things to make you miss then make you pay for missing him. In his prime he was thing of beauty. When he was at his best it took a godly type fighter at that time(Roy jones) to beat him.

But on strickly the shoulder roll I'll say Fkoyd slightly takes it i say but its almost even.

[BigAlexSand]

I'd say both are equally great and unlike Mayweather Toney constantly challenged himself!!!! One Lose to Roy Jones Jr means a lot more than an undefeated streak, winning against less than elite opposition. Not saying Maywather had an amazing career but Mayweather through a good part of his career didn't utilize the shoulder roll as frequent. Toney could be seen using the shoulder roll damn near his entire career!

[Tom Cruise]

James Toney relies on his amazing chin a lot. Not to say he doesnt have a great defence for his style, but he definitely gets caught and has lapses in concentration.

Cant say the same for Mayweather

[-PBP-]

Idk about who's better but I could watch fat Toney operate in the pocket all day.

The fatter he got the more visible his skills became it seemed like.