jack dempsey is the most overrated.....

[Dave Rado]

The world revolves around whichever fighter they nuthug.

Poet

Or whichever fighters they hate.

[StarshipTrooper]

Or whichever fighters they hate.

Good point! Reference any post by LRR: He's incapable of making one without taking shots at Ali

Poet

[Dave Rado]

.When Dempsey fought Gene Tunney the second time a fighter who was in his prime, by many boxing experts Dempsey should of been the winner due the famous long count, in which Tunney was belived to of been down 14 seconds.

Great post overall but I think the above is very unfair to Tunney. Tunney's job was not to look at his stopwatch, it was to look at the referee, and to beat the referee's count. If the referee had not delayed the count, there is no evidence that Tunney would not have beaten it - he got up when he had to, and he probably would have done so under a normal count. And the referee was within his rights to delay the count until Dempsey went into a neutral corner. It was a brand new rule, and Dempsey just forgot all about it in the heat of battle, which was unfortunate, but it was his own fault for forgetting.

[JAB5239]

Great post overall but I think the above is very unfair to Tunney. Tunney's job was not to look at his stopwatch, it was to look at the referee, and to beat the referee's count. If the referee had not delayed the count, there is no evidence that Tunney would not have beaten it - he got up when he had to, and he probably would have done so under a normal count. And the referee was within his rights to delay the count until Dempsey went into a neutral corner. It was a brand new rule, and Dempsey just forgot all about it in the heat of battle, which was unfortunate, but it was his own fault for forgetting.

Good post Dave.

That rule was actually asked for by Dempsey to be implemented before this fight. Till then there had never been a "nuetral corner" rule for knockdowns.

[StarshipTrooper]

Good post Dave.

That rule was actually asked for by Dempsey to be implemented before this fight. Till then there had never been a "nuetral corner" rule for knockdowns.

Only count that matters is the refs. If Dempsey gave Tunney extra time to recover than that's his own damn fault.

Poet

[PlasticFlamingo]

i used to get taught he was great but when you look at it he really isnt.....11 draws = weak

all he did was beat down big goofy white guys with 2 left feet....he gets respect because he was a lil guy and was exciting but other than that hes nothing special.......the one time he fought a black guy it was a bum journeyman who was 20-10 or something and it was a tie thats how bad he was.......

he milked his championship for all he got, he barely even fought at all, forget harry wills......

about the long count - if he was such a great stalker he wouldve put tunney on his ass again, instead he got put on his ass the next round........thats on jermaine taylors level

joe louis would smoke that fool

I have to agree, its not only the draws and the weak opossition, he was a very protected fighter as well. Firpo should have won the championship after knocking him outside the ring, but the referee saved him with an slow count. Some of his draws may have been losses in today's boxing scene, but the press loved Dempsey. Its not that he wasn't good, its just that he wasn't as great as advertised.

[GJC]

Good post Dave.

That rule was actually asked for by Dempsey to be implemented before this fight. Till then there had never been a "nuetral corner" rule for knockdowns.

Didn't know Dempsey requested it. I did hear once that Tunney said he would have beaten the count, however he thought that Dempsey would have finished him off had he have done. All good fighters listen for the ref and use up every second they can.

[GJC]

I have to agree, its not only the draws and the weak opossition, he was a very protected fighter as well. Firpo should have won the championship after knocking him outside the ring, but the referee saved him with an slow count. Some of his draws may have been losses in today's boxing scene, but the press loved Dempsey. Its not that he wasn't good, its just that he wasn't as great as advertised.

Not sure he was loved by the press remember he was called a slacker during the war. Do think he was one of the first boxers to transcend the sport as Ali, Louis and Tyson did. Dempsey became more popular after he retired, the long count helped with that.
As for the Firpo count think you could make a better case for him being helped back into the ring than a long count. Lot of rewritting of history goes on in these forums I am noticing

[Kid McCoy]

As for the Firpo count think you could make a better case for him being helped back into the ring than a long count. Lot of rewritting of history goes on in these forums I am noticing

The Firpo knockdown looked more like a push to me. In any case, a fighter knocked through the ropes has 20 seconds to re-enter the ring, albeit unaided.

[TheGreatA]

Here's a newspaper account of one of those "draws":

Oakland Tribune, 1917-08-11:

“Willie Meehan got a draw with Jack Dempsey at Dreamland last night, but Willie and Billy Snailham, the referee, were about the only people who saw it that way. For Dempsey hit all the punches of the bout that did any damage. Meehan’s whirling slaps made a lot of noise and made him look as though he were doing something, but that is about as close as he came to doing anything in the way of holding his own with Dempsey.

“Meehan resorted to his old time clown tactics but they did not buy him anything. About all they did was to keep the minds of the spectators off Meehan’s fat stomach. About ten seconds before the final gong, Dempsey brought home a right upper cut that came close to finishing Meehan and the gong was about all that saved him from dropping before the limit.”

Many of these fights may have been pre-arranged draws, which means that in case that the fight goes the distance, no official winner will be announced regardless of who looked better at the end. BoxRec.com often goes by newspaper reports but it's possible that no reports of these particular fights were found so they are listed as draws on Dempsey's record.

For example the Tommy Loughran fight was listed as a win for Tunney for years until a conflicting report was found. At first it was actually changed to a loss for Tunney but now it's a no contest.

BoxRec is definitely not the place to get all of your boxing knowledge from, which is why the site states that "data may be incomplete and/or inaccurate".