The Final Verdict: Did Pac Have a Full Thickness Rotator Cuff Tear?

[travestyny]

This has been an ongoing debate. Let's put this out there ONE LAST TIME and then File it away forever

Boxingscene--Do you believe the story that Manny Pacquaio suffered a full-thickness rotator cuff tear. His doctor claims he tore one tendon completely, and half of another one. The evidence shows that his activity in the ring did not corroborate this theory. His recovery and activity after surgery does not corroborate this story. Do you believe it?

I will also provide evidence that debunks that this injury is the reason that he skipped sparring and sparred with only his left hand. There is video evidence, testimonial evidence, medical evidence. It's all here. If you have more to add, please do.

This is NOT about your love for Pacquaio. This has NOTHING to do with Mayweather. PLEASE vote honestly. That's all I ask. Thank you.

Poll to come

Evidence that this injury was exaggerated

Visual Evidence of an exaggerated or non-existent shoulder injury: (thanks to aboutfkntime )

• Pac did not mention it once
• His corner did not work on the injury
• Pac did not stop using his right hand
• Pac did not stop throwing WITH INTENT
• Pac threw the same amount of punches he threw against Bradley FFS
• The injury wasn't even mentioned during the after-match interview

Video Evidence:

Playing basketball 3 months after surgery.

Direct Testimonial Evidence:
“I can lift my shoulder like this. No problem any longer,” Pacquiao stated while rotating the shoulder to reporters in Japan where he was helping the Philippine basketball national organization."
http://www.ibtimes.com/boxing-news-p...h-2016-2045161

“I’m fine. It’s God’s work. I never saw a doctor. I never did rehab. All I did was to swim in the sea as often as I could. The salt water healed my wound.”
http://boxingbuzz.sportsblog.com/pos...-recovery.html

Eyewitness Testimony:
Manny Pacquiao, the only fighter in history to win eight world titles in different divisions, raised his right arm upward and showed no discomfort in appearing to have fully recovered from a torn rotator cuff suffered during his fight against Floyd Mayweather in Las Vegas last May.
http://www.philstar.com/sports/2015/...ulous-recovery

During the 2019 FIBA World Cup bidding event in Tokyo last week, Manny Pacquiao defiantly raised his right arm upward and showed no discomfort in appearing to have fully recovered from surgery for his torn rotator cuff injury.
http://openinground.com/article/mann...-his-shoulder/

Testimonial from his own surgeon:
Swimming and playing basketball can damage the rotator cuff.
@:45


Testimony from those on Pacquaio's Team:
Bob Arum: "You know, he's not acting very professionally, in my opinion."
"You got an operation like that, you got to do rehab, you got to get the doctor to look at it and guide you on the kind of rehab that you can do."

Freddie Roach: “The salt water is just a [expletive] story. The [expletive] kid [Pacquiao] has a sense of humor. When he’s injury free, we’ll fight again. I don’t know when that’ll be. In three to six months, I’m hoping, but I don’t know. I’m not a doctor. I can’t really tell you.”

Pacquaio's Business Manager: Pacquiao’s business manager Eric Pineda, who was also in Tokyo, called it a miraculous recovery. “Manny has strong faith,” he said. “God did it. And all that swimming in the sea helped. Now, there’s talk of his comeback fight.”

Pacquaio's Surgeon, According to Bob Arum: "The doctor here was amazed when he saw pictures of his movement and everything…The doctor says he's got to see it himself.”

Testimony From Medical Sources:
"Swimming plays no role in the rehabilitation program for people with rotator cuff injuries and, second, swimmers are at risk of getting rotator cuff injuries because the shoulders play such an important role in swimming strokes."

"Rehabilitation guidelines for repairing the rotator cuff, clearly rule out swimming, even at 14 weeks after surgery."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/39...-rotator-cuff/

"According to the website for Premiere Orthopaedic & Sports Medicine, patients, at the three to six month mark post-surgery, are barely starting to re-strengthen the muscles in the affected area after the mandatory period of rest and inactivity. Dr. Surena Namdari of the Rothman Institute told Sports Illustrated that it would likely be six months before Manny could even begin the physical rehabilitation process."

"If the tear is large, patient is unable to lift the injured arm due to loss of muscle power and pain."
http://www.tandurust.com/bone-joint-...s-healing.html

"They simply can’t lift the arm up or if they do, they can’t lift it far."
http://www.howardluksmd.com/shoulder...cuff-injuries/

"In other cases, the rotator cuff tendons completely rupture. A complete tear makes it impossible to move the arm in a normal range of motion. It is usually impossible to raise the arm away from your side by yourself."
http://www.houstonmethodist.org/orth...or-cuff-tears/

With the consent of their surgeon, a patient may return to activities such as swimming between 4 and 6 months following the procedure.
http://www.orthop.washington.edu/?q=...tor-cuff-tears

Type 1 Rotator Cuff Repair:
No Swimming for up to 15 weeks after surgery.

Type 2 Rotator Cuff Repair:
No swimming up to 20 weeks after surgery.
http://www.uwhealth.org/files/uwheal...RTC_Repair.pdf

Return to swimming 6-8 months after surgery.
http://www.massgeneral.org/ortho-spo...20protocol.pdf

No swimming up to 25 weeks after surgery
http://uhealthsportsmedicine.com/doc..._Tenodesis.pdf

No swimming up to 19 weeks after surgery
http://www.taosortho.com/patientinfo...20protocol.pdf

Patients can return to swimming with a graduated program from 3-6 months post surgery
http://www.shouldersurgery.com.au/ro...ff-repair.html

No swimming for the first 4 months
http://www.uptodate.com/contents/rot...ond-the-basics

No swimming for until months 4 - 6
http://www.orthonc.com/sites/default...uff_Repair.pdf

Can resume swimming at 3 months(this is the site that you chose to mention, and it still doesn't agree with you)
http://www.sosmed.org/specialties/sh...tor-cuff-tear/


Evidence from parallel circumstances:
Kobe Bryant:
Has surgery for a full thickness rotator cuff tear on January 28th.

Surgery performed by Dr. Neal ElAttrache.

Full recovery stated to be 9-12 months.

"On August 22nd, Bryant posted a photo to his Instagram account with the caption, 'First day back on the court shooting!'"


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...oulder-surgery

First day back on the court shooting for Kobe?: about 7 months

Pacquiao on the court shooting: 3 months

Andre Berto:
"Andre Berto, for example, went through seven months of tough rehab before being cleared to engage in light sparring after suffering an injury similar to Pacquiao’s in August of 2013. Berto, by the way, was treated by the same doctor who had attended to Pacquiao’s injury, Dr. Neal ElAttrache."
http://boxingbuzz.sportsblog.com/pos...-recovery.html

Berto Rehabilitation time: 7 months

Pacquaio rehabilitation time: ??? (self-rehab...3 months the most)

[travestyny]

But He Missed Sparring - Reasons Debunked

Tuesday, April 7th, 2015 – Reason given= overtraining -- Not injury!
Pacquiao was supposed to enter the hardest part of training this week, with him doing 12 rounds of sparring. Last week, the fighting congressman did up to 10 rounds of sparring, on top of his mitts sessions and conditioning training.
“Manny, you see is very energetic When he trains, he really trains as in he trains,” Roach said. “Sometimes, during sparring, I would set a 10-round session, but he’ll still ask for one or two more rounds.”
http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/04/10...-sparring-anew

Wednesday, April 8th, 2015 -- Back to Punching
After the Pacman missed his Tuesday sparring session, he was back in the gym Wednesday.
“Today we opened the gates. He kicked my ass. I must’ve got hit with a thousand and two punches today,” said Coach Freddie Roach.
http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/04/10...est-mouthguard

Skips sparring Thursday, April 9th.
Reason given: USADA visits to take 4 vials of blood, NOT INJURY --

Manny is photographed with his hands wrapped at the time that Carl Malone visits on this day. Later, USADA comes and takes 4 vials of blood.

Fernandez said they did not force Pacquiao to spar as the loss of blood will affect the boxer’s senses.
http://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/04/10...-sparring-anew

Top Rank promoter Bob Arum said Pacquiao didn’t want to keep the USADA technicians waiting until he finished training and decided to ask them to get his blood and urine samples before his training.
“Since it took a while to get it done, Freddie (Roach) asked Manny to take off,” said Arum
http://www.asianfightscene.com/2015/...-day-in-a-row/

Why would they wrap his hands if he had already planned not to spar. The reason given seems to be the legit reason.



Manny's arm looked good during the morning workouts! Also, sparring partners were present, yet one claimed they were asked to go home after the injury??? Manny was waiting to spar before USADA came!
@2:00



Manny's Sparring partners:
Keandre Gibson notices no injury during sparring sessions.
“We were there to spar with him, so they weren’t telling us no information….but I didn’t see there was no shoulder injury in camp.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flu7APUOK64



Dashon Johnson – Sparring partner who was actually an MMA fighter with a terrible record who called Roach and asked if he could be used to imitate Mayweather. Some believe he was allowed to only to give Manny confidence.
Before the fight:
“Manny is looking unbelievable right now and honestly I don’t see the fight going the distance at all.”


Now, what did he say after the fight?:
“We were asked not to mention anything to anyone, but yes, Manny got hurt during this camp and his right shoulder and it was messed up pretty bad."

Pacquaio sparred using only his left hand? -- DEBUNKED

Evidence points to this being misunderstood. Roach meant he was doing mitt work with only the left, not sparring against sparring partners.

"Manny’s been favoring the right side so much now, I need to bring the left back." -- Freddie Roach
http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news...-freddie-roach

He was clearly working with Roach, not sparring partners:
Quote:
We did 12 rounds of left hand only. The right hand was never used. Oh, it’s deadly. Deadly. My chest is … killing me.
http://www.************.com/2015/04/...re-says-roach/

They refer to mitt work as sparring:
Pacquiao has had a total of 23 rounds of sparring, 13 of them with the mitts, according to assistant trainer Buboy Fernandez.
Read more: http://sports.inquirer.net/177884/pa...#ixzz48c5MKgFr

They do mitt work for 12 rounds:
"When we do the mitts for 12 rounds, he will ask for more and so on and so forth."
http://www.philstar.com/sports/boxin...ncels-sparring
He wasn't sparring against partners, I don't think. That makes this less interesting.

[travestyny]

LIES

Manny informed NSAC?

“A few hours before he was expected to step in the ring, when Manny’s doctors began the process, the Nevada Commission stopped the treatment because it said it was unaware of Manny’s shoulder injury.”

Sounds like he tried to begin taking toradol, and the commission stepped in because they noticed and were informed of no injury.


*Manny informed USADA and expected them to show proof of the injury to NSAC?

"We had no medical information, no MRIs, no documents," said Travis Tygart, who heads the USADA. "It was not an anti-doping issue.

Tygart said his agency, which was hired by promoters to oversee drug testing for the bout, was contacted April 7 asking about the use of various substances and whether they were allowed under anti-doping rules. He said there was another call 10 days later asking about using a different substance, again for what the USADA was told was an unspecified shoulder problem.

So all of that talk about disclosure to USADA was really just a phone call asking what was illegal and what wasn't, huh? LMAO. How the hell would USADA be required to contact NSAC about the injury with no proof of one given to them???

*Have you had an injury to your shoulders, elbow, or hands that needed evaluation or examination?

We know he checked no and signed off.

*Michale Koncz filled out the medical form?

Nevada Athletic Commission executive director Bob Bennett said Pacquiao filled out the form himself and understood the questions.
http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/story/_...houlder-injury

Even More Lies

*Pacquiao said, “No, I don’t have pain or injury before the fight. I just want to make sure that whatever happened, I’m still there. I’m not saying I’m not 100 percent condition.”
http://www.newsday.com/sports/boxing...ght-1.11350596


*Pacquiao said: “We wanted a shot for numbing the shoulder but we respect the decision of the Commission it was getting better and better but was still not 100 per cent.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing...eather-5628491

*Roach claimed the doctor that Manny was just joking about GOD healing him. WOULD THE DEEPLY RELIGIOUS PACQUIAO LIE ABOUT GOD? Roach also said he spoke to the doctor in the Phils that was doing the rehab.

*Here, Roach says he doesn't talk to Pac when he is not training him. They don't call each other. Why would he call the Phils to talk to his rehab doctor?

@2:35 -- Roach: "We don't talk on the phone. We don't even have each other's phone numbers. We only speak when we see each other."



*Pacquiao’s promoter said in a statement on Monday that doctors had “concluded that with short rest, treatments and close monitoring, Manny could train and, on May 2, step into the ring against Floyd Mayweather”.
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/othe...-fight-fallout

*Before that, they said this:
"He said the doctor told him to rest his shoulder for 30-40 days."
http://www.rappler.com/sports/by-spo...ssion-shoulder
Can you believe this team after all the lies?

Pac Workouts when he was feeling the effects of this injury:

Here he is during media day on April 15th. Notice how easily he lifts his shoulder over his head at 6:08. Also uses the right just fine:



Here is some more Manny in April. Leaning into that heavy bag. Hmm:

The Good Doctor Neal ElAttrache

Some of you have argued that world renowned surgeon, Dr. Neal ElAttrache, would not lie about this injury. How well do you know this doctor?

Did you know that he was in the dressing room with Pacquiao on the night of the fight, and that he is the doctor who attempted to shoot up Pacquaio with Toradol before the match?

1. Why was he needed to give Pacquaio a shot? You need a surgeon to deliver a shot? Was he a part of the Pacquaio entourage? I'm sure he enjoyed the free seats.

2. Why was he attempting to shoot up Pacquiao with Toradol??? First of all, he said that Pacquiao was at normal strength going into the fight.

"We treated the aggravation (with permission from U.S. Anti-Doping Agency) and he was back to his normal strength going into the fight.”
https://ryortho.com/breaking/neal-el...n-in-6-months/

Second, why wouldn't he give a local numbing agent instead of Toradol, which some consider to be a PED? Why was he giving ANYTHING for a fighter that was at normal health???

3. He told the NSAC doctors that Pacquiao did not need the shots.

NSAC said:
"We interviewed the physicians representing Manny, and they advised us his health and safety would not be at risk if he fought without the injection."
http://www.boxingscene.com/pacquiaos...ne-july--90674

So how good was this good doctor that was willing to shoot Manny up with Toradol for no damn reason????

Proof that it was ElAttrach in the dressing room:
@1hr 17 minutes
http://theforwardpodcast.libsyn.com/bob-arum

[SterlingStained]

Dr. Neil ElAttrache >>>> Jiddu Dali (TS)

[travestyny]

And finally:

A licensed physical therapist and injury analyst who talked to Pacquaio's doctor reported it as a partial thickness tear.
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...cuses-recovery


How did she get this information wrong????

[Code Red]

If Pac had a torn rotator cuff he wouldn't have just got beat by Floyd, he would have been destroyed by Floyd. The fact he wasn't obliterated tells me he was perfectly fine during that fight.

[travestyny]

There is so much evidence that it's astounding. This was NOT a full thickness rotator cuff tear!

[jaded]

Who cares?

[travestyny]

If Pac had a torn rotator cuff he wouldn't have just got beat by Floyd, he would have been destroyed by Floyd. The fact he wasn't obliterated tells me he was perfectly fine during that fight.

Please vote. I want to see what Boxingscene truly thinks about this issue!

[Spoon23]

Doctor's analysis of how Pac had to endure the pain of that partial thickness rotator cuff tare.



Torn rotator cuff red mark @ right shoulder.



Dr.Neal ElAttrache (the same doctor who performed the surgery on Kobe Bryant's). Explains Pacquiao's rotator cuff injury.