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English, Irish, Scots, Welsh: all have DNA of ancient Britons

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  • English, Irish, Scots, Welsh: all have DNA of ancient Britons

    Most of the ancestors of today’s UK and Irish populations arrived from Spain between 16,000 and 7500 years ago, speaking a language related to Basque.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/sc...rits.html?_r=0

    Britain and Ireland are so thoroughly divided in their histories that there is no single word to refer to the inhabitants of both islands. Historians teach that they are mostly descended from different peoples: the Irish from the Celts, and the English from the Anglo-Saxons who invaded from northern Europe and drove the Celts to the country’s western and northern fringes.

    But geneticists who have tested DNA throughout the British Isles are edging toward a different conclusion. Many are struck by the overall genetic similarities, leading some to claim that both Britain and Ireland have been inhabited for thousands of years by a single people that have remained in the majority, with only minor additions from later invaders like Celts, Romans, Angles , Saxons, Vikings and Normans.

    The implication that the Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh have a great deal in common with each other, at least from the geneticist’s point of view, seems likely to please no one.

    The genetic evidence is still under development, however, and because only very rough dates can be derived from it, it is hard to weave evidence from DNA, archaeology, history and linguistics into a coherent picture of British and Irish origins.

    That has not stopped the attempt. Stephen Oppenheimer, a medical geneticist at the University of Oxford, says the historians’ account is wrong in almost every detail. In Dr. Oppenheimer’s reconstruction of events, the principal ancestors of today’s British and Irish populations arrived from Spain about 16,000 years ago, speaking a language related to Basque.

    The British Isles were unpopulated then, wiped clean of people by glaciers that had smothered northern Europe for about 4,000 years and forced the former inhabitants into southern refuges in Spain and Italy. When the climate warmed and the glaciers retreated, people moved back north.

    The new arrivals in the British Isles would have found an empty territory, which they could have reached just by walking along the Atlantic coastline, since there were still land bridges then across what are now English Channel and the Irish Sea.

    This new population, who lived by hunting and gathering, survived a sharp cold spell called the Younger Dryas that lasted from 12,300 to 11,000 years ago.

    In all, about three-quarters of the ancestors of today’s British and Irish populations arrived between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago, when rising sea levels finally divided Britain and Ireland from the Continent and from one another, Dr. Oppenheimer calculates in a new book, “The Origins of the British: A Genetic Detective Story” (Carroll & Graf, 2006).

    As for subsequent invaders, Ireland received the fewest; the invaders’ DNA makes up about 12 percent of the Irish gene pool, Dr. Oppenheimer estimates, but it accounts for 20 percent of the gene pool in Wales, 30 percent in Scotland, and about one-third in eastern and southern England.

    Still, no single group of invaders is responsible for more than 5 percent of the current gene pool, Dr. Oppenheimer says on the basis of genetic data.

    He cites figures from the archaeologist Heinrich Haerke that the Anglo-Saxon invasions that began in the fourth century A.D. added about 250,000 people to a British population of one to two million, an estimate Dr. Oppenheimer notes is larger than his but considerably less than the substantial replacement of the English population assumed by others. The Norman invasion of 1066 A.D. brought not many more than 10,000 people, according to Dr. Haerke.
    Last edited by The Hammer; 10-05-2012, 07:28 AM.

  • #2
    Very interesting. Green K, georges.


    EDIT: "you have given too much reputation in the last 24 hours"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Freedom. View Post
      Most of the ancestors of today’s UK and Irish populations arrived from Spain between 16,000 and 7500 years ago, speaking a language related to Basque.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/sc...rits.html?_r=0

      Good read mate. . .

      That's me! I'm about 50% anglo-saxon, and the other half is macedonian/germanic. I'm a mutt. . .

      Some Anglo Saxons seem to be dark featured. . . Pale skin, but dark eyes, and almost black hair.

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      • #4
        For me this is interesting because these new findings will debunk so many historical researches and theses that has been accepted truth for a long time. Although as the article pointed out, they are not 100% sure of their findings yet. It's so amazing and fascinating how new technologies to seek truths that we have ideas idea of for a long time.

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        • #5
          I swear we've known this for ages. The Basque thing I mean. We're all descended from the Celts who originated in Switzerland, travelled to Spain (and even Morocco) and crossed over to Ireland and GB.

          Thanks for posting Freedom

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          • #6
            Thanks for sharing.

            Out of topic; but in Spain, the Basque region, it is said that it has existed longer than any other region in Spain, the same goes for the Basque language. Is this true?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ishak Pasha View Post
              Thanks for sharing.

              Out of topic; but in Spain, the Basque region, it is said that it has existed longer than any other region in Spain, the same goes for the Basque language. Is this true?
              True of the language I think, yes

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ishak Pasha View Post
                Thanks for sharing.

                Out of topic; but in Spain, the Basque region, it is said that it has existed longer than any other region in Spain, the same goes for the Basque language. Is this true?
                Yes.

                The Basques and Britons are descended from the people who lived in that area more than 15,000 years ago.

                The Celts originated in the area north of Greece, and arrived in Western Europe during the first millenium BC. Because they knew how to make steel and thus better weapons, they were able to conquer the original people of Western Europe.

                The Celts, Saxons, Romans, Vikings and Normans took over all or parts of the British Isles at various times during the past 2800 years, and brought their language and culture, but never settled in large enough numbers to become a majority over the Britons.

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                • #9
                  The brits are lucky we bothered with pillaging their towns and rape their women. Look at some of the results:



                  The ugly ones can only be from the celts...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Freedom. View Post
                    Yes.

                    The Basques and Britons are descended from the people who lived in that area more than 15,000 years ago.

                    The Celts originated in the area north of Greece, and arrived in Western Europe during the first millenium BC. Because they knew how to make steel and thus better weapons, they were able to conquer the original people of Western Europe.

                    The Celts, Saxons, Romans, Vikings and Normans took over all or parts of the British Isles at various times during the past 2800 years, and brought their language and culture, but never settled in large enough numbers to become a majority over the Britons.
                    Ah my mistake I thought we Celts originated in Switzerland

                    Originally posted by Grand Champ View Post
                    The brits are lucky we bothered with pillaging their towns and rape their women. Look at some of the results:



                    The ugly ones can only be from the celts...
                    Lol true. I have both Celt and Viking blood, I'm part ugly part beautiful

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